CNN "State of the Union" - Transcript: Interview With Maine Senator Susan Collins

Interview

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TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION. I'm Jake Tapper.

A horrific scene out of Syria Saturday.

And I must warn you, we are about to show you some graphic images that might be difficult to watch, the video showing multiple people, including children, whom activists say were attacked with a suspected chemical agent.

The attack took place in Duma, in Eastern Ghouta, near the capital of Damascus. You can see women, children and men now lifeless. The foam on their noses and lips appears to be a telltale sign of a chemical weapon, a chemical attack. Local doctors say that dozens have died. That number, of course, could rise.

CNN cannot independently verify this video, which was taken by anti- government activists and doctors. The Syrian government denies any involvement in the attack, as well as in at least three other chemical attacks in the past six months.

President Trump took to Twitter to respond directly to the attack this morning, writing -- quote -- "Many dead, including women and children, in mindless chemical attack in Syria. Area of atrocity is in lockdown and encircled by Syrian army, making it completely inaccessible to outside world. President Putin, Russia and Iran are responsible for backing animal Assad. Big price to pay. Open area medical help and verification. Another humanitarian disaster for no reason whatsoever. Sick."

Joining us now is Republican Senator Susan Collins. She's a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

Senator Collins, always -- always good to see you.

The White House homeland security adviser this morning says nothing is off the table, including a potential military response, to this chemical weapons attack in Syria, an apparent weapons attack.

Would you support a military response to this?

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R), MAINE: This attack with chemical weapons, which are banned by international conventions, is absolutely horrific and, as your video indicates, was aimed at civilians in Syria.

Last time this happened, the president did a targeted attack to take out some of the facilities that may be an option that we should consider now. But it is further reason why it is so important that the president ramp up the pressure and the sanctions on the Russian government, because, without the support of Russia, I do not believe that Assad would still be in office.

TAPPER: President Trump, of course, announced about a week-and-a-half

ago that he plans to withdraw U.S. troops fighting ISIS out of Syria -- quote -- "very soon."

Obviously, only the perpetrators of this horrific attack are responsible for violence, but a Syrian human rights activist contacted me and said -- quote -- "This is what happened when Trump says pull out and let another take care of it" -- unquote.

Do you think it is possible that Trump's announcement to withdraw might have emboldened some bad actors here?

COLLINS: No, I don't.

But I think the president is going to have to reconsider his plan for an early withdrawal, in light of what has happened.

TAPPER: Turning to the other news out of the White House this week, you just heard White House chief economist Larry Kudlow defending these new potential tariffs against China.

The stock market, of course, dropped almost 600 points on Friday amid fears of a possible trade war. Farmers are worried that retaliatory tariffs on soybeans will end up costing them billions of dollars.

I know you have farmers in Maine. Do you support what the president is doing here with regards to China?

COLLINS: I think we need a more nuanced approach.

But I give the president credit for levying these tariffs against the Chinese, who -- with whom we talked for a decade about their unfair trade practices and theft of intellectual property from American firms.

[09:20:10]

This is costing us jobs in this country. And we do need to get tough with China. But we need to do so in a way that we do not spark a trade war -- war and retaliation that will end up with our European and Asian competitors getting business that otherwise would have come to American farmers and American manufacturers.

So, it is a very delicate balancing act that we have to undertake. But we cannot ignore the looming trade deficit with China and the fact that China does not abide by the labor and environmental laws that protect our workers, and thus subsidizes major industries in a way to undercut American producers.

TAPPER: On another note, President Trump tweeted last night that EPA administrator Scott Pruitt is doing -- quote -- "a great job."

The president excused a number of controversies. Some of the controversies include that Pruitt rented a room from an energy lobbyist for $50 a night, which is well below market value, he asked for a private charter plane membership, costing $100,000 a month, although they didn't actually do that, he wanted to buy a bulletproof desk which would cost $70,000, he requested sirens in traffic because he was late for dinner, he reassigned staffers when they raised ethics concerns about Pruitt's actions and spending.

This is, of course, in addition to what we learned from the AP this week, that the EPA has spent almost $3 million on Pruitt's security detail.

You were the only Republican senator to vote against Pruitt's nomination in the first place. Do you think he should resign or be fired?

COLLINS: Well, first of all, let me say that the actions taken by Scott Pruitt in the environmental arena, whether it is trying to undermine the Clean Power Plan, or weaken the restrictions on lead, or undermine the methane rules, are reasons enough to validate my decision to oppose his confirmation.

This daily drip of accusations of excessive spending and ethical violations serve to further distract the agency from accomplishing its very important mission.

I think Congress needs to do some oversight. After all, we don't know the extent of the recommendations made by Mr. Pruitt's security team. But, on policy grounds alone, I think Scott Pruitt is the wrong person to head the EPA.

TAPPER: So, should he resign or be fired?

COLLINS: Well, that is a position that only the president can take at this point.

The Congress has no role as far -- now that he has been confirmed. I voted against confirming him, but I believe that my position was the correct one and has been validated by his actions.

TAPPER: You voted for the Republican tax reform plan in December, for a number of reasons, but one of the reasons was that you had been assured by the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, that fixes to Obamacare would pass before the end of the year.

In your statement explaining your vote, you pointed directly to those fixes as a main reason you supported the tax plan, writing -- quote -- "Having secured these key improvements in the bill, as well as a commitment to legislation to help lower health insurance premiums, I will cast my vote in support of the Senate tax reform bill" -- unquote.

It is April now. You haven't gotten the health care bills that you wanted. Do you think that you were lied to in order to get your vote?

COLLINS: No, I really don't.

I had a number of concerns about the tax bill, but I support lowering taxes. We have doubled the standard deduction. That is going to help some 72 percent of American taxpayers. We have made the child care tax credit refundable for the first time.

That's going to help that single mom who is making $35,000 actually get money back from the federal government, rather than owing taxes.

TAPPER: Right, but...

COLLINS: So, there is a lot in the tax bill that is good.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: That you support. I understand that you support it.

But you did say on the Senate floor that repealing the individual mandates, which was in the bill, would almost certainly lead to higher premiums.

And a study from the Kaiser Family Foundation shows premiums are expected to climb 52 percent in Maine this year. This is exactly what you warned about, exactly what you were afraid about.

Haven't these leaders who promised you that this legislation that would help bring relief to them for premiums, haven't they failed your constituents?

COLLINS: Well, first of all, let me say that I had the opportunity just two weeks ago to bring a package to the Senate floor with Senator Lamar Alexander.

[09:25:07]

So, the majority leader kept his promise to me.

Unfortunately, and much to my surprise, because this was an opportunity to not only prevent those egregious premium increases, but actually to lower insurance rates by some 40 percent over the next two years, and expand coverage to 3.2 million people, and, much to my surprise, it was blocked actually by senators on the other side of the aisle.

That was something that I never anticipated. I think it is very unfortunate.

I don't support the individual mandate. I never have. I don't think, however, it should have been included without offsetting changes.

The reason I don't support it, it is highly regressive. The families -- 80 percent of the families who pay the penalty for not buying unaffordable insurance make less than $50,000 a year.

So, the individual mandate is not the answer. Lowering the cost of insurance is the answer. That's what our package would have done.

We tried to bring it to the Senate floor, attach it to the spending bill, and, regrettably, we were blocked.

TAPPER: All right, Senator Susan Collins of Maine, thank you so much. Always good to see you.

COLLINS: Thank you, Jake.

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