MSNBC "The Beat with Ari Melber" - Transcript: Robert Mueller

Interview

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

VELSHI: Breaking news new, details emerging from James Comey`s bombshell  new book, including revelations about Trump`s reaction to the salacious  claims in the infamous dossier. So far, no reaction from Trump`s twitter  feed. This dropping as the stand-off with Bob Mueller comes to a head.

NBC News reporting that talks for an interview between Trump and Mueller  have broken down. The negotiations collapsing after the FBI raided Trump`s  long-time lawyer`s office, home, and hotel room on Monday.

Without a Trump interview, Mueller might publish findings on whether Trump  tried to obstruct justice by this summer. All this amid growing reports  that Trump is looking to remove Mueller`s boss, deputy attorney general Rod  Rosenstein, as a way to block the Russia probe.

With me now is the top Democrat on House judiciary Congressman Jerry Nadler  who has a new bill to protect Bob Mueller.

Congressman, good to see you. Thank you for joining us. You are the only  hope for Americans if Donald Trump decides to fire Rod Rosenstein. The  legal options at that point become more limited because the President does  by most legal opinion have the right to fire the deputy attorney general.  At that point, if Congress doesn`t become involved, the President could get  away without an investigation.

REP. JERRY NADLER (D-NY), RANKING MEMBER, JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Well, he  would -- he can legally fire Mueller -- I mean Rosenstein. And Rosenstein  could fire -- Rosenstein`s replacement could fire Mueller. Or could very  much constrain the investigation by saying, you can`t look at this, you  can`t look at that.

But any such action, given the fact that the President has made very clear  the motive for any such action, he`s made very clear that he considers this  criminal investigation a witch-hunt, that he wants to put an end to it,  that he is personally intolerant of it, would be clear -- that`s a pre- admission that if he fired Mueller or Rosenstein, that would be an  obstruction of justice, it would be a crime. He`s already convicted  himself out of his own mouth, should he do that.

VELSHI: So here`s the issue. The legislation that created the special  prosecutor after Richard Nixon, which is different from the special  counsel. But for a lot of reasons that legislation was not renewed and  different legislation came in. But it`s very clear and it would be very  clear to a lawyer and it would be very clear to a judge that the intent of  that legislation would be to prevent the President from being able to  influence the investigation, or get rid of the prosecutor without good  cause. This is what that legislation initially was written for. It is  unbelievable to most Americans that it is possible that the President would  be able to get rid of Robert Mueller.

NADLER: Well, no. There`s an ancient maxim in Anglo American law that no  man can be his own judge. And President Trump apparently wants to be his  own judge in the sense that he decides what`s a fair investigation, what is  not a fair investigation. He said that the court-approved -- the execution  of a court-approved search warrant on his attorney, Mr. Cohen, was an  attack on the country. It was not an attack on the country. He is not the  country. It may have been an attack on him in some sense. It was not an  attack on the country. He is not the country.

Now, the fact that the special prosecutor, the special counsel, can only be  fired for cause is a regulation of the justice department. And the  legislation we introduced this morning, the same as the Senate legislation  that was introduced, would put that into law, and would also say that the  President -- that the special counsel cannot be dismissed except for cause.  And that if he were dismissed, he has ten days to appeal to the courts, and  the courts would have to find that there was ample grounds, justifiable  grounds for dismissing him. And that`s the legislation we put in. Under  current law, the President might be able to ignore the regulations or  change the regulations.

VELSHI: What`s the chances of your legislation passing?

NADLER: Well, I don`t know. The question is, will the Republicans in the House finally develop a spine and stand up to a President and be willing to 
defend the liberties of the American people and defend the rule of law?

VELSHI: Well, let`s listen --

NADLER: We are sworn to do that.

VELSHI: We had a chance to poll some senators in particular this week.  Let`s just listen to what they had to say and I want to hear from you on  the other side.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

VELSHI: OK. No reason for it to happen, shouldn`t fire him, don`t think  the President is going to. Don`t think the President is too smart to.  None of that says, he better not. That doesn`t really show us a spine.  I`m really glad that our elected members think the President shouldn`t do  this, but I`m passed caring about that congressman. All I need to know is  that he can`t.

NADLER: I agree with you, it doesn`t show a spine. Hopefully -- number  one, hopefully it won`t happen. Number two, if it does happen, maybe they  will develop a spines and then we can take appropriate action. And number  three, if it doesn`t, this will certainly be one of the major issues in the  midterm elections. And our job between now and the midterm elections is to  try to protect the integrity of the Justice Department and the FBI, and to  the extent possible, the Special Counsel, against assaults by the White  House and anybody else.

ALI VELSHI, MSNBC SENIOR ECONOMIC AND BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: I want to  ask you about the interpretation that the White House offered. Sarah  Huckabee Sanders said this on Tuesday that the -- that the White House  seems to have advice that says he can fire Robert Mueller. Just listen  with me for a second.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

VELSHI: So Congressman, that`s either spin, bad legal advice, or a lie.  Which one?

NADLER: I don`t know. It could be a lie, it could be bad legal advice or  spin. I don`t know of many lawyers who think that the President has that  power, but he does have the power to fire Rosenstein and Rosenstein`s  replacement could fire Mueller. There`s no question of that.

VELSHI: And that`s what we have to keep the eye on. Congressman Jerry  Nadler, good to see you. Thank you for being with us.

NADLER: Thank you.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Source