CNN "The Lead with Jake Tapper" - Transcript: Interview with Congressman John Garamendi, Democrat of California

Interview

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[16:17:21] SCIUTTO: Welcome back.

Some House Republicans and, of course, the president have declared that there is no evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia but appears that special counsel Robert Mueller may not be convinced or at least is still investigating. Last year, Mueller's team pressed former deputy campaign manager Rick Gates to reveal anything he knew about contact between the Trump campaign and Russians, with a particular focus on former campaign manager Paul Manafort and his ties to a man who they knew worked for a Russian intelligence agency.

Gates has, of course, made a deal with the Mueller team and it's not known yet what details he might have revealed about that connection. Joining me now to talk more about the investigation, Congressman John Garamendi. He's a Democrat of California, a member of the Armed Services Committee.

Congressman, thanks very much for taking time on this Good Friday.

REP. JOHN GARAMENDI (D), CALIFORNIA: Happy to be with you.

SCIUTTO: So, we know this based on these court documents that Trump campaign senior officials were in touch with and knew they were in touch with a former member of the Russian intelligence services, and during the campaign. Is that acceptable in your view for senior campaign officials?

GARAMENDI: Absolutely not. In fact, it's most unusual. You can go back through convention after convention, you didn't see Russians hanging around. But you surely saw him hanging around this campaign and it's been shown over and over again, multiple documents, multiple indictments actually, all of which indicate that Russia is most definitely involved in the 2016 campaign.

And we're finding more and more information every day that the Trump campaign is being closer and closer identified in a collusion with the Russians to influence the outcome of the election. Now, the evidence isn't exactly clear yet, but I must tell you it is one thing after another and it's coming to the point where, yes, there is collusion.

SCIUTTO: But what do you base that on? How do you -- how are you confident that there is collusion beyond -- I mean, you -- there are more innocent explanations for these contacts. These communications with Russians, whether you believe them or not, there were there are potential more innocent explanations.

GARAMENDI: Well, you're using a very interesting word, aren't you? Innocent. Really? Really innocent?

After what the Russians were doing, hacking into the DNC, hacking into John Podesta, hacking into other people and then weaponizing that information, using it through WikiLeaks to influence the campaign and at the same time officials from the campaign actively involved in innocent? Really? Innocent contact with the Russians? Come on. That's not believable.

[16:20:00] What is believable is that they were working with the Russians to somehow influence the outcome of the campaign. I think we're going to find the proof of it, and I think the man that will find that proof is Mueller. And that's why there's so much talk about getting rid of him, somehow firing him, firing the people that could fire him so that new people would put it in that could fire him.

This has got to be a major problem for America. We need to know what happens so that we can write the legislation to make sure that ever happens again.

SCIUTTO: Do you believe that Mueller's job is in danger today?

GARAMENDI: There's certainly a lot of evidence. You listen to the Republicans in Congress. You listen to my colleagues who have repeatedly gone after the FBI, gone after the Justice Department. What does all this talk about a special investigator, a special prosecutor to go after the Justice Department, what's that all about?

It is to weaken the Justice Department, so that when the day comes that there'll be testimony in court about what took place, they'll be able to somehow say, well, the Justice Department can't be trusted in this matter. The FBI can't be trusted.

This is a very concerted effort it goes through many, many different phases. But all of it is designed to somehow recognize that the president's campaign was colluding with the Russians, working with the Russians in multiple ways.

And the money's going to be shown. We know that there was money that was passed around. Now, we see that -- that money -- where is it coming from? Well --

SCIUTTO: We'll see --

GARAMENDI: We're going to find out.

SCIUTTO: We'll see what evidence the special counsel finds, if he does find out evidence.

GARAMENDI: Exactly.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this. In your last interview on CNN, you suggested that the president should be impeached if he does not adequately protect the U.S. against the Russia threat, including meddling in the election. Since then, you've seen the president's decision to expel these 60 Russian diplomats. You've seen decisions for instance to send offensive weapons to Ukraine.

Do you look at these steps as this president, this administration getting tough on Russia?

GARAMENDI: What I was specifically talking about is the fact, the fact that the Russians have hacked into critical infrastructure in the United States, into our electrical grid, into our power plants and position themselves in such a way that they could weaponize that in -- that situation and shut down the power systems, disabled critical infrastructure and power plants, all of which is a direct threat to the United States. And the word used by the homeland security folks was "act of war". That's what I'm referring to.

And what I have not seen from this part is any indication whatsoever that he is willing to use the instruments of power that we have, for example, in the Department of Defense, we have an organization called CyberCom, specifically tasked to defend this nation and when necessary and useful take offensive action.

Yes, there have been offensive weapons now authorized for the Ukraine. They -- that sat on the president's desk for more than 60 days before he finally signed off on it.

SCIUTTO: Right.

GARAMENDI: And yes, he did do what is normal and that is to expel -- every president has expelled Russians at one time or another.

SCIUTTO: But you're saying on -- specifically on the cyber threat, you have not seen -- you have not seen the action you expect.

Congressman John Garamendi --

GARAMENDI: That's correct.

SCIUTTO: And I should say we noted earlier that even that the head of a Cyber Command, as well as the NSA, Admiral Mike Rogers has said he has not received a direct order from the president to counter those efforts.

Congressman, we appreciate --

GARAMENDI: Precisely my point.

SCIUTTO: Understood. We appreciate your thoughts on this.

GARAMENDI: Thank you.

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