CNN "The Lead with Jake Tapper" - Transcript: Citizenship Question

Interview

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Joining me now is Congressman Ted Lieu. He's a Democrat from California. He serves on the Foreign Affairs and the Judiciary Committees.

Congressman Lieu, if you would explain, just be clear, the political impact of this, because it sounds like this is the biggest focus. Explain why Democrats fear that this will lead to states with large immigrant populations to have less representation, both in state legislatures, but also in Congress?

REP. TED LIEU (D), CALIFORNIA: Thank you, Jim, for you question.

And let me first say that Article 1, Section 2 of the Constitution requires the government to count the number of people in our country, not the number of citizens. And when you put in this question, it's going to cause some folks to not turn in their census forms, because this is a voluntary process.

It's going to require additional resources to make sure we get an accurate count. And it's going to undercount people in states like California, where there are high immigrant populations. And that could result in a lack of federal resources and services for the people that needs help and needs representation.

SCIUTTO: Now, some of the pushback from the Commerce Department, which has issued the census, is saying that there is no hard evidence that putting such a question on the form will actually suppress participation in this.

What evidence is there that this will lead people not to turn those forms in? LIEU: But that question was actually removed in 1950, contrary to Sarah Huckabee Sanders' statement today. She made yet another false statement.

That census question on citizenship has not been in for nearly 70 years. It's been a bipartisan process. And this is a process that needs to be not just bipartisan, but really the American people need to have faith that the figures coming in are accurate.

And if you're an immigration, you might not want to turn that paper in if you think bad things are going to happen to you based on how you answer the questions on the form.

SCIUTTO: So, you're using, in effect, that some folks might fear that if they don't list themselves as a citizen, that ICE will come for them?

Is that the idea, that the environment is such that you're...

LIEU: Absolutely.

That's actually correct, because you do see these ICE raids are happening.

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In addition, there is a separate survey called the American Community survey that does ask that question. The Commerce Department can get that information through that survey.

The Department of Justice can get it through that survey. But they shouldn't be adding irrelevant questions to the census.

The census is designed to count people, not citizens.

SCIUTTO: Why, though, isn't it reasonable just to ask the question, right? Your name is not attached to the form when you send it in.

And there are other federal forms and government forms that ask that question. Why such an uproar from including a simple question about citizenship?

LIEU: So, one reason that this question was removed in 1950 is because the Census Bureau realized that there was undercounting of populations, including minority populations and populations that had high numbers of immigrants.

Both Republican and Democratic census directors have come out opposing the adding of this question. And, again, it is completely irrelevant to the constitutional mandate, which is to count people, not citizens.

And really what the Trump administration is trying to do is to weaponize the census, so that they can use it to undercount people in California and other states with high immigrant populations.

SCIUTTO: Congressman Lieu, thanks for that, but please don't go anywhere.

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SCIUTTO: We're back now with Democratic Congressman Ted Lieu. Thanks very much for sticking with us.

Congressman Lieu, we reported that the acting director of the Office of Government Ethics told Democratic members of Congress that the White House Counsel's Office is investigating loans to Jared Kushner's businesses.

Today, however, Sarah Sanders at the White House podium said that the White House counsel's not investigating Kushner. I'm curious. This is an issue that you have been active on. Is that denial satisfying to you?

LIEU: Not when it comes to Sarah Huckabee Sanders. She already lied today about the census issue. We can't really trust what she says, because she's made so many false statements.

But I do believe Jared Kushner needs to be investigated for these two massive loans that his family's business received after folks met with him as senior White House adviser. Apollo gave him a $184 loan to his company. And Citigroup gave a $325 loan also to the Kushner company after they met with Jared Kushner in the White House.

That looks and feels improper.

SCIUTTO: Now, his lawyer, Abbe Lowell, has said that he's no longer involved in these businesses and that these meetings took place after the business meetings, we should say -- or the loans to place after he left the former role in the business.

Do you believe that the separation is actually substantial there?

LIEU: The public reporting is that he still retains a stake in his family's business.

And the size of these loans is also very telling. Apollo gave a loan that was triple their normal size after the founder of Apollo met with Jared Kushner a number of times in the White House. So the whole thing really smells bad. And I think investigators need to look into these transactions.

But I also wrote a letter to Jared Kushner signed by over a dozen members of Congress asking if he asked foreign nationals to help finance his troubled property at 666 Fifth Avenue. It's been over three months now, and he still can't answer that question. SCIUTTO: It's a fair question. If you or I were applying for

security clearances, having a big debt just in the thousands of might be an issue, certainly would come up from your FBI investigator.

On another issue,Russia, the Trump administration, you have been critical of the president's handling of Russia, his reluctance to call out Russia for bad behavior, yesterday kicking out dozens of diplomats, closing a consulate in Seattle.

In your view, does the White House deserve credit here for standing up to Russia?

LIEU: I support the administration's action of joining other countries and expelling Russian diplomats.

I do note, however, that as we sit here today, Donald Trump still has not implemented the bipartisan congressional sanctions that we passed last year. The only thing that they have done is use an Obama era law to implement sanctions on some of the folks that Robert Mueller had indicted.

So, we still have a far ways to go in terms of the administration stopping the Russians from bullying America.

SCIUTTO: Now, you mentioned Robert Mueller's investigation.

The White House has denied that the president is thinking about firing Robert Miller. Do you believe those denials?

LIEU: I don't know what to believe from the White House.

But I do know that if the president fired Robert Mueller, that would constitute obstruction of justice. If he fired Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein to meddle with Robert Mueller or fired Attorney General Jeff Sessions to do the same thing, that would also constitute obstruction of justice.

And this weekend, we saw these amazing March for Our Lives happened across America. If he did anything to Robert Mueller, I think you would see massive marches and demonstrations and protests.

SCIUTTO: Congressman Ted Lieu of California, thanks very much for taking the time today.

LIEU: Thank you, Jim.

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