CNN "State of the Union" - Transcript: Guns
Interview
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KEILAR: Joining me now is Democratic Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia. He is a member of the Foreign Relations Committee.
Senator, thanks so much for being with us on this Sunday.
KAINE: Absolutely, Brianna. Good to be with you.
KEILAR: Democrats, of course, do not control Congress.
Even when they have controlled Congress, passing legislation on guns has been difficult or even impossible. How do you explain that to these kids and to the 97 percent of Americans who support universal background checks?
KAINE: Brianna, bluntly, the NRA leadership, funded by gun manufacturers, has basically been able to gridlock everything in Congress now for nearly decades.
That's why Congress has not been willing to act, even to do things that an overwhelming majority of the American public want us to do.
But the activism of these young people is actually changing the equation. Just the two things that we put into the budget bill the other night couldn't have been done had these youngsters not advocated for them.
And they're not going away. And so this gives us a moment to finally do what the America public wants us to.
KEILAR: They're -- they're not going away. They don't want incremental change. They want bigger change.
And when we saw them marching this weekend, these young people are not distinguishing between Republicans and Democrats. They see inaction from all of Congress. Does your party bear responsibility too?
KAINE: Well look, if -- if you go back a number of years, yes, Democrats participated, for example, to give gun manufacturers liability protection, to -- to wall off the CDC from researching gun violence. But this now goes back a ways.
In recent years, the Democratic Party in Congress has been nearly unified, especially on background checks, for example. So a bill to do comprehensive background checks, we voted on it in the Senate in April of 2013, near unanimity on the Democratic side. Very few Republicans would support it.
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But, again, two nights ago, we -- we took a step forward in the budget to help fix the records system against which you check gun sales, and also to allow research into gun violence.
These were two things that we could not have gotten done in the past, because Republicans were blocking them, along with the NRA. But the active engagement of young people convinced Congress, well, we better do something now.
Now, I think some in Congress hoped, well, if we do this two days before the march, maybe these young kids will say thanks and go away.
But I was marching in Richmond. I had a lot of friends marching in D.C. These youngsters aren't going away, and we need them. So often in the history of our country it's been young people whose advocacy has turned the corner, turned the tide. And I -- I feel that happening now.
KEILAR: Big news out of the White House. President Trump has appointed John Bolton as his new national security adviser.
And, last night, you tweeted. You questioned whether John Bolton can get his security clearance based on -- quote -- "ties to Russian allies of Vladimir Putin."
What are you referring to there?
KAINE: John -- John Bolton, I think, is a disastrous pick.
First, letting H.R. McMaster go -- General McMaster is an American patriot who speaks truth to power, and that's why Donald Trump didn't like him.
John Bolton, when he was nominated to be ambassador to the U.N. by a Republican president, with a Republican-controlled Senate, he couldn't get confirmed because of real concerns about both his rhetoric, but also about his track record of cooking intelligence to make it look other than it really was.
Since then, he...
KEILAR: But you questioned whether he would be able to get a clearance.
KAINE: I -- I wonder about that.
He -- a report surfaced right after he was named about a speech that he gave in Russia in 2013, at the request of a Russian oligarch who's very close to Vladimir Putin.
These kinds of contacts with foreign governments, especially, in the words of General Dunford, who's the head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Russia is the chief nation-state adversary of the United States, these kinds of contacts raise real questions in my mind about whether he could get a full security clearance or not.
We've already lost one national security adviser, Michael Flynn, because he was lying about contacts with foreign governments and had to be let go.
I think -- even though the Senate doesn't get a vote to confirm the national security adviser, I have many, many questions, not only about John Bolton's philosophy, but about these contacts with Russia and potentially other governments.
KEILAR: His rhetoric really stands out, though.
He talked about Russian election meddling as a true act of war, one that Washington will never tolerate. He said, "We negotiate with Russia at our peril." He has said that Vladimir Putin has lied to President Trump.
That's different than Michael Flynn, who you're talking about.
KAINE: You're right; there are differences. But if you go back and look at the video of the speech that he gave in
Russia at the behest of an ally of Vladimir Putin's in 2013, I think it raises real questions.
Also, "TIME" magazine is out with a story from yesterday that digs into deep concerns about whether John Bolton cooks intelligence.
The national security adviser position is there to gather the -- basically, the best advice from Defense, State Department, Commerce on international trade, and then present neutral, top-quality intelligence and options to the president.
But John Bolton had a hard time getting Senate votes to be U.N. ambassador because of a track record, alleged by many, that he would cook intelligence in ways that even the intel agencies, like the CIA, found to be deeply problematic.
You -- you can't have an NSA adviser that is not going to be straightforward about what the intelligence suggests that the nation should do.
So, that's one of many reasons to be concerned about him.
KEILAR: Let's talk about dreamers. You voted in favor of the $1.3 trillion spending package, even though the bill didn't include a fix for 800,000 dreamers, undocumented immigrants who entered the U.S. as kids.
It's something Americans overwhelmingly support. And here's what President Trump said about it Friday:
KAINE: Absolutely.
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KEILAR: Is that going to work? Do Democrats risk losing the support of Americans who overwhelmingly want this fixed?
KAINE: Brianna, I'm going to be really blunt here. That quote of the president, he is either lying or he is completely delusional.
Why is there DACA? Because a Democratic president, President Obama, supported by Democratic legislators, put it in place in 2012. Why is DACA threatened? Because a Republican president, Donald Trump, supported by Republican legislators, announced in September that the program was going to be ended.
[09:10:08] One person can save DACA. If President Trump believes in DACA, all he has to do is retract his executive order from September, where he broke a promise to dreamers and said he was going to end the program.
I was the chief negotiator on the Democratic side of a bipartisan dreamer bill one month ago where we protected dreamers.
KEILAR: But that's not on the table. That's so clearly not on the table, Senator, getting...
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KAINE: Well, no, no, it is -- it is -- it is on the table.
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KEILAR: ... reinstating the executive order.
KAINE: Brianna, it is on the table.
No, we -- we -- it is a -- both are on the table. The president can reinstate -- if he cares about dreamers, or if Republicans care about dreamers, he can reinstate the executive order tomorrow with the stroke of one person's pen.
And the deal that we put on the table was protect dreamers and give President Trump $25 billion, every penny that he asked for, for border security. He turned the deal down.
Go back and read what the White House and DHS said about the deal when we put it on the table.
President Trump opposes dreamers, or he could protect them in the stroke of a pen in the next five minutes if he wanted to. So, we're going to keep looking for a solution, but the key is, we do not have the support of the White House, we don't have the support of Republicans.
We either have to change their mind, or we have to get more Democrats in office. That's the way we're going to protect dreamers.
KEILAR: All right, Senator Tim Kaine, thank you so much.
KAINE: Thanks, Brianna.
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