MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript: Russian Investigations
Interview
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MATTHEWS: Sorry if I misspoke.
Well, meanwhile, after being left in the dark by their Republican colleagues, Democrats on that committee, the Intel Committee, have described the Republican report as a sham and a capitulation to the White House.
Tonight, they have released a report of their own summarizing their findings in the investigation to date.
And joining me right now is the ranking Democrat of the House Intelligence Committee, U.S. Congressman Adam Schiff.
Congressman Schiff, thank you for joining us.
What is a -- what is the burning problem with the Republican report, as you read it?
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, it reads like an elongated version of the Nunes memo. It cherry-picks information. It omits key facts and it`s designed to convey a political narrative, rather than a fact-finding mission.
And, of course, it`s dramatically incomplete, because they curtail the investigation when we still have dozens of key witnesses to interview and lots of documents that we didn`t even request.
There are issues, for example, involving Trump campaign personnel reaching out to WikiLeaks and being in direct communication with Guccifer 2. And we asked to subpoena Twitter and get those messages. They were unwilling to do it.
We had allegations just within the last two weeks that people who testified under oath in our committee may have testified falsely. But they`re unwilling to pursue it.
Even Steve Bannon, who they with great ceremony beat their chest and said we cannot allow him to stonewall and refuse to answer questions and he needs to be hauled before the court to answer if necessary, they`ve decided, well, never mind. We`d rather not know.
And that`s the fundamental problem here. It`s been an unserious effort, really an effort to give the appearance of an investigation, without doing a credible and thorough investigation.
MATTHEWS: Well, in the report you released tonight, you suggested there might be more documentation of the president`s interactions with former FBI Director James Comey, interactions that could represent obstruction of justice -- quote -- "The minority has a good-faith reason to believe that the White House does in fact possess such documentation memorializing President Trump`s conversations with Director Comey."
So, tell us where that goes. Do you think you`ve got strong evidence now or good evidence that suggests obstruction of justice by the president?
SCHIFF: Well, it`s really hard to say, because these documents that we requested, they haven`t been willing to insist upon.
Mr. Conaway and I wrote to the White House on a bipartisan basis when the president suggested that he might have tapes of conversations with James Comey, asking for any recordings, but not just recordings, any memoranda or other documents that reflect his conversations with Comey that would shed light on the issue of obstruction of justice.
The White House basically told us that they answered our letter by tweet. And when we took issue and wrote them a second bipartisan letter suggesting that, if they didn`t comply, we would subpoena them, they told us to pound sand.
MATTHEWS: Yes.
SCHIFF: From that point until today, we haven`t been able to get the majority to follow up with a subpoena. And that would be a pattern that would replicated time and time again over the last year. When we got no for an answer, the Republicans said, we`re perfectly fine with that.
MATTHEWS: Well, "The Washington Post" is reporting, Congressman, that Trump`s former campaign adviser Roger Stone told an associate in the spring of 2016 that he had advance knowledge of the Russian hacked e-mails that would upend the 2016 election.
In a phone conversation -- quote -- "Stone said he had learned from WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange that his organization had obtained e-mails that would torment senior Democrats such as John Podesta, then campaign chairman of Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton. The reported conversation occurred before it was publicly known that hackers had obtained the e-mails of Podesta and of the Democratic National Committee."
The reporting appears to contradict what Stone said last week on MSNBC. Let`s watch that.
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MATTHEWS: Congressman, what do you make of that defense by Roger Stone? We`ve heard about the time in the barrel and all that stuff, how Podesta is getting his turn, it`s coming, based upon what looked to be earlier knowledge by Roger Stone of what the Russians had hacked and who they`re going to hurt with it.
And now he`s coming back and saying, well, I was talking about something else. But now we`re getting reporting that he did in fact get advanced word about WikiLeaks and what they`re getting from the Russians.
What do you make of all this in terms of collusion?
SCHIFF: Well, what Roger Stone has said before is that his whole strategy is deny, deny, deny. And ,indeed, that`s a strategy that President Trump also adopts. He repeats no collusion, no collusion, no collusion as a mantra.
He credits Roy Moore when Roy Moore says, I didn`t do it. He credits Rob Porter when Porter says, I didn`t do it.
If you deny, you`ll be fine in the president`s world and in Roger Stone`s. You`re a loser if you admit to anything.
We as a committee can`t simply take Roger Stone`s word for things. We need to get from Twitter, because we can`t be confident we`ll get them from Roger Stone, any private communications that he had, direct messages that he had with Guccifer 2.0 or WikiLeaks.
And other witnesses that contradict Roger Stone should be brought before our committee. We should find out who is telling the truth.
What the Republicans would like to do instead is put out a report that essentially says, we asked Roger Stone and he denied it and, therefore, there`s no evidence to the contrary.
That`s not an investigation. That`s just a facade of an investigation.
MATTHEWS: OK. They don`t look good. By the way, why does the Senate committee work so in such a bipartisan way, and Richard Burr works so well with Mark Warner, and they actually seem like they`re on the level, whereas the Republicans on your committee don`t look they`re on the level?
They look like -- to use an old political term -- toadies for Trump. That`s what they look and sound like.
SCHIFF: Well, you know, the leadership -- the leadership comes from the top. And the leadership on our committee, even during periods when he said he was recused, comes from Chairman Nunes.
And I think he has seen his mission as carrying the water for the White House, rather than doing a credible investigation.
That, of course, put us in the position of either going along with that charade or speaking out. And that really was no choice at all.
MATTHEWS: Thank you very much, Congressman, U.S. Congressman Adam Schiff of California.
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