MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: Department of State

Interview

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MADDOW: Joining us now is Senator Ron Wyden. He`s a senior member of the  Senate Intelligence Committee.

Senator Wyden, thank you very much for making time to be with us tonight.

WYDEN: Thank you.

MADDOW: You said it would be a vote it would be to vote favorably for  secrecy to vote for Gina Haspel for CIA director. What do you mean by  that?

WYDEN: What I mean, Rachel, is in effect the facts have been covered up  here for quite some time. We have been trying to get this information. As  you know, Gina Haspel has never testified before the United States  Congress. There have been published reports -- public reports about  various links with respect to interrogation, torture and the like.

But the public has a right to know here. And what Senator Heinrich and I  are talking about is information that could be made available to the  American public, particularly with this nomination that would in no way  compromise what are called sources and methods. And it seems to me in the  name of transparency and accountability, this information needs to be  declassified.

MADDOW: Do you have any option to make any of that information -- even in  an in a roundabout way, do you have any opportunity to make any more  information -- any more information public about her than has already been  made public?

WYDEN: Well, she will have to come to a public hearing for this particular  nomination and what we`re going to do is lay out in particular what  happened with respect to torture during those Bush years. We know that the  detainees were treated in a very cruel way -- you know, in effect people  were injured, were tortured. We know that the CIA lied with respect to  whether or not torture had actually stopped terrorist plots.

The agency lied to the Congress, lied to the American people and what we`ll  be asking at those hearings is what role Ms. Haspel had if any in those  matters.

MADDOW: You also said today, Senator, that you will oppose Mike Pompeo`s  nomination to be secretary of state, replacing Rex Tillerson. You said  that Pompeo and the president both have a casual relationship with the  truth. Why will you -- why will you oppose Pompeo?

WYDEN: We thought when he was the director of the CIA that it was so hard  to pin him down on fundamental issues with respect to accountability. You  and I have talked about the open intelligence committee hearing in the past  when I tried to pin him down on Mike Flynn. Sally Yates said that Mike  Flynn was a security threat. We could never get Mike Pompeo to describe  explicitly what happened with Mike Flynn and those presidential daily  briefings.

And Pompeo is going to have the huge effect on American foreign policy, for  example, with respect to sanctions and Iran and Russia. With respect to  Russia, what he`s always tried to do is curry favor with the president to  play down the role of the Russians and potential collusion.

So, those are going to be important hearings.

MADDOW: Senator Ron Wyden, senior member of the Senate Intelligence  Committee -- sir, thank you for joining with us tonight. Much appreciated.

WYDEN: Thank you.

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