NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Russian Investigations
Interview
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CHUCK TODD:
Joining me now is the top Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee it's Mark Warner of Virginia. Senator Warner, welcome back to the show, sir.
SENATOR MARK WARNER:
Thank you.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to start first with all of the changes that we've seen take place. And I want to put up a quote from Charlie Dent, a retiring Republican Congressman from Pennsylvania, more center-right than than than conservative-right, but he said this: "The spontaneity and lack of impulse control are areas of concern for lots of members on both sides of the aisle. Disorder, chaos, instability, uncertainty, and tempered statements are not conservative virtues, in my opinion." This was Charlie Dent reacting to all of the changes this week. What do you make of the changes?
SENATOR MARK WARNER:
I think he's right. This chaos is not the way you run an organization. I was a business executive for 20 years. I ran a state. It was called the best-managed state in the nation when I was governor of Virginia. But with this president, I think he thrives on chaos. Maybe that's the way to run a reality TV show. It's not the way to run the greatest country in the world.
CHUCK TODD:
0At the end of the day, should it-- there's a lot of folks not happy with the instability. But he's comfortable with it. Should that matter?
SENATOR MARK WARNER:
Well, I think at the end of the day, when he took the oath of office, it was to protect and defend the constitution and our country. I think we are more vulnerable by having, you know, taking out and not consulting with our allies. I think we are more vulnerable when you've got a president that wakes up every morning and even his closest advisors don't know what he's going to say or do. I think we are more vulnerable when the president of the United States calls Vladimir Putin and, John McCain's words, not mine, "Congratulates a dictator on a sham election." I don't think that makes our country safer. And frankly, when the president of the United States, who still refuses to acknowledge Russian intervention, on that call, doesn't raise election security or doesn't stand up for our closest allies in the U.K.--
CHUCK TODD:
Why do you think he's doing that?
SENATOR MARK WARNER:
You know, Chuck, I gave up--
CHUCK TODD:
You've looked at a lot of evidence.
SENATOR MARK WARNER:
I gave up predicting this president a long time ago. I do know this, that when the president doesn't act, others do have to act. For example, election security. The Russians hacked into our elections, they scanned or broke into 21 states, every one of the president's top security advisors have said they'll be back. Yet, they received no direction from the White House to make election security a top priority.
CHUCK TODD:
So do you believe--
SENATOR MARK WARNER:
So this week, this week bipartisan, our committee came out with, you know, "Let's make sure we've got paper trail on every election, let's make sure we help states better information sharing." So if the president's not going to act to protect the country, in this case, Congress is actually stepping up.
CHUCK TODD:
Do you believe the president's somehow acting as if he's compromised with Putin?
SENATOR MARK WARNER:
It is more than bizarre that 14 months into this president's administration, he has failed to ever call out Russia. He has failed to ever condemn Putin, even after Putin was accused of killing a British individual of a Russian-British individual in the U.K. There is something just strange about this. And I think it is one of the reasons why Mueller's investigation has to continue and why our investigation has to continue.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me ask you about Facebook. Do you think they've been truthful and forthcoming?
SENATOR MARK WARNER:
I don't think Facebook has been fully forthcoming. I called out Facebook back in December of '16. In the spring of '17, I questioned micro-targeting and the use of this really sketchy firm Cambridge Analytica. Early on, for most of 2017, they blew that off. They then, during the summer, acknowledged that there was paid advertising. But more importantly, that there were a number of Russian accounts--
CHUCK TODD:
Right
SENATOR MARK WARNER:
-- that were fake accounts that spread information, that touched 150 million Americans.
CHUCK TODD:
Do you have concern that Cambridge Analytica, found-- founding executive of Steve Bannon, their financial sort of rainmaker are the Mercer family. If you hire Cambridge Analytica, you've got Mercer money. And that somehow this-- and then you had Steve Bannon was also the chairman of a news organization, and they're getting Facebook data.
SENATOR MARK WARNER:
Ho-ho-hold, Chuck, that's only part of it.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah, I mean, are you concerned --
SENATOR MARK WARNER:
Their CEO, their CEO
CHUCK TODD:
-- that all of this was designed almost to create, I don't know, to create--to weaponize something that we weren't aware of. When you throw a media company with this political consulting firm?
SENATOR MARK WARNER:
What we saw in 2016 was the broad weaponization of information by Russians and unfortunately using some other tools. This same firm--
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah
SENATOR MARK WARNER:
-- they recently disgraced CEO reached out to Julian Assange about leaked emails. This same firm reached out to a Russian oil company, Lukoil, about working on trying to get American election data. And this firm has a reputation, it's been in more than 30 countries where it's been using disruptive tactics. Why would this firm be then used by by the Trump campaign, $6 million country. And I think there are still a whole host of questions.
CHUCK TODD:
Did you know that Steve Bannon was a founding executive until recently?
SENATOR MARK WARNER:
I was aware --
CHUCK TODD:
Were you aware of this?
SENATOR MARK WARNER:
I was aware that there was both from the Mercer family, from other individuals that were Cambridge Analytica had at best a colorful reputation.
CHUCK TODD:
No, I understand that. But did you know that here you had a chairman of a news, news organization who was, I guess, more of a principle on this?
SENATOR MARK WARNER:
There were--
CHUCK TODD:
Was that obvious?
SENATOR MARK WARNER:
There were works around.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah
SENATOR MARK WARNER:
And what bothers me is again, this is a firm that even I think the president's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, bragged about their value.
CHUCK TODD:
Right
SENATOR MARK WARNER:
Then after the election, you've seen nothing but the Trump campaign trying to distance themselves.
CHUCK TODD:
Right. I've got to ask you about this Facebook ad today. This is Mark Zuckerberg's apology. And I hold it out because if you can find Facebook's logo here, you've got better eyesight than I do. It's very-- This looks like a guy that is uncomfortable with taking responsibility. This is what he told Kara Swisher. "Things like where is the line on hate speech? I mean, who chose me to be the person that did that? I guess I have to because we're here now. But I'd rather not." Does he sound like a CEO that wants to take responsibility for his comp--company's actions?
SENATOR MARK WARNER:
Mark Zuckerberg created, in many ways, the whole notion of social media. It's a great American success story, as is Twitter, Google, a series of other companies. But I think the whole industry has been reluctant to accept the fact that we're seeing the dark underbelly of social media. How it can be manipulated. We're still dealing right now with kind of fake posts and fake accounts.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah
SENATOR MARK WARNER:
Think about the next generation of technology, where they can put somebody else's face on somebody's body. Or totally real time misrepresent words that come out of somebody's mouth. This is an area where we have to get our arms around it. And frankly, Mr. Zuckerberg needs to come and testify. He says he will do it if he's the right person. Well listen, I've got experts on my staff.
CHUCK TODD:
Who's the--
SENATOR MARK WARNER:
Yeah, I've got experts on my staff. But you don't want my staff here. You want me here. He is the face of Facebook.
CHUCK TODD:
You wouldn't go to a voter and say, "No, no, no, let me--"
SENATOR MARK WARNER:
Yeah, "Let me take my staff."
CHUCK TODD:
You wouldn't do that?
SENATOR MARK WARNER:
That's not going to cut it. He needs to come out. He created this entity--
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah
SENATOR MARK WARNER:
-- he in fact created this industry, and he needs to come explain to the American public and to policy makers.
CHUCK TODD:
But if the F.T.C. finds that they violated their consent to agree. It's a $2 trillion fine minimum if you take the $40,000 for each instance, for each day that they let each instance have around 50 million. And I do the quick math, $2 trillion. Should that be the level of fine they should potentially be subject to?
SENATOR MARK WARNER:
The F.T.C. has to determine whether they violated the 2011 consent agree. They'll work through that. But--
CHUCK TODD:
And if they did, should you see maximum penalty?
SENATOR MARK WARNER:
I think there will be appropriate penalties. But I think it raises the bigger question. All of these social media platform companies have said they have no responsibility for any of the content. I think we have to relook at that.
CHUCK TODD:
Okay.
SENATOR MARK WARNER:
I think in many ways, some media companies. I think we have to relook at the fact that if you move from one company to another, maybe you should be able to move all your data. There are solutions and what I invite Mr. Zuckerberg and others is come help work with us. Congress is not always at the best in terms of cutting-edge technology. They need to work with us so we try to get it right. I don't want to out-regulate these companies into oblivion.
CHUCK TODD:
Right.
SENATOR MARK WARNER:
But I do think people need to have the ability to know whether information they're receiving is honest, truthful, or at least originates in this country.
CHUCK TODD:
Senator Warner, I have to leave it there, Democrat from Virginia. Thanks for coming on and sharing your views. I think if you're a social media company, you can drop the word social. You're a media company. Anyway, thank you sir. When we come back, we're going to break down the flurry of changes in the Trump administration and what they mean with the panel. And later, as hundreds of thousands around the world joined the March for our Lives, we talked to a group of voters, gun owners, and gun opponents about what they think can be done to stop gun violence.
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