CNN "The Lead with Jake Tapper" Transcript: ISIS

Interview

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TAPPER: Pamela Brown in Phoenix, thank you so much.

Let's bring in Senator Tim Kaine from Virginia. He sits on both the Armed Services and Foreign Relations Committee.

Senator, thanks so much for being here.

SEN. TIM KAINE (D), VIRGINIA: Thank you.

TAPPER: Right now, this is the first time that ISIS has claimed responsibility for a terrorist attack on American soil. The intelligence is still murky. But how concerned are you?

KAINE: Well, we ought to be very concerned, Jake.

It's not a surprise, and it may end up that there isn't an ISIS connection. But we have known for some time that ISIL is trying to recruit people from all over the world, both to come to that theater of battle in Iraq and Syria, but also to carry out actions in countries all over the world, including the United States.

We have known that. And it is -- it demonstrates even more powerfully, as we finish nine months of a war against ISIL, for Congress to finally authorize this mission and to give it some shape and some definition.

[16:05:05]

I'm very discouraged that Congress has taken so long. But this is the kind of incident that demonstrates that this matter isn't going away. And we can't just kind of turn a blind eye to it. We have got to take it up and authorize military action.

TAPPER: I want to get to the authorization in a second.

KAINE: Yes.

TAPPER: But I do wonder, in a world where ISIS is relying in many ways on lone wolves, on self-radicalization...

KAINE: Yes.

TAPPER: ... how much do you think it matter whether these two individuals were instructed by ISIS in Syria and Iraq, or whether they just self-radicalized and took it upon themselves to do this?

KAINE: No, that's a great point, Jake.

In some ways, yes, violence is violence. And some of the strategies that ISIL is using, whether they had an official connection or were they just inspired or they wanted to emulate people who were getting attention, we may not know the answer to that question.

But what we do know is this. ISIL is an organized and cohesive force headquartered in Syria, active in Syria and Iraq, and trying to inspire terrorist activity elsewhere. There does need to be concerted action, especially in the region, but with the U.S. and others supporting it, against this non-state jihadist threat.

That is the case. There can be lone wolves, but lone wolves, we need to take away the group that's inspiring them, if that's what in fact occurred.

TAPPER: Since the new year, Senator, 25 people have been arrested and charged with either trying to join or support or carry out an attack here for ISIS.

In your mind, does U.S. law enforcement need to do more to find and stop these people before they ultimately succeed, or do they seem to be pretty much doing the job right?

KAINE: Well, I do think the U.S. law enforcement has been doing a good job.

In addition to those arrests, I'm aware of other activities to try to determine when folks should be people that we're concerned about. This problem is not confined to the United States. There's hundreds of foreign fighters flowing from nations in Western Europe, nations in North Africa into the battlefield in Iraq and Syria, and then many trying to return.

So, there does need to be very concerted activity by U.S. law enforcement and international law enforcement to keep track of these folks and hopefully prevent any violence from occurring here in our homes or far away from that battlefield.

TAPPER: Senator, as you alluded to earlier, you have been saying for the better part of 10 months that there needs to be a formal authorization for use of military force against ISIS. Why does it matter?

KAINE: It matters because Congress is supposed to declare war constitutionally.

Presidents are not supposed to start wars without Congress. And this president has said we're engaged in a war against ISIL. And so we are in a status now where the legal justification for the war is highly questionable.

I put some of the fault of that on the administration that didn't forward an authorization to Congress until February. But now the authorization is here, and we're 10 months, nine months into this war, starting month 10 on Friday, and Congress hasn't said anything about it.

So it is now incumbent upon us to do what the Constitution demands and what our troops deserve. We shouldn't be asking them to risk their lives without being willing even to have a debate and cast a vote here about this military action? We have spent more than $2 billion, thousands of bombing runs. It's important that Congress finally, you know, own this, accept the responsibility, and then define what the mission is, because, as you pointed out, lone wolves, many different battlefields, you know, people claiming ISIL connections all over the world.

We have got to define what the mission ISIS.

TAPPER: Yes. Don't you think it's precisely the ownership that has -- that has prevented your fellow senators from embracing your idea? They don't want to own military action. They don't want the responsibility. They would rather have President Obama take the heat for it and not have to sully their hands with it. Am I being too cynical?

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KAINE: You are being exactly right.

The same Congress that shakes their fist at the president and says he's an imperial president, that wants to bring lawsuits against him when they thinks he oversteps his bounds, on the matter that is the most fundamental to congressional powers under Article I, that should be most jealously guarded, the power to declare war, Congress has been MIA until now.

And that does a huge disservice to the troops. We have already lost American service members in connection with Operation Inherent Resolve. So, we're asking people to risk their lives every day and Congress isn't willing to even have a debate and determine whether it's in our national interest?

I am heartened by the fact that the leadership on the Foreign Relations Committee, where I serve, seems very interested in getting into this as soon as we vote -- finish the voting on the Iran Nuclear Review Act, of which I'm a co-author.

But we have got to push forward on this, because, again, we start the 10th month of war on May 8. And we have blown through every deadline imposed by the War Powers Resolution of 1973.

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TAPPER: Yes.

KAINE: And Congress is proving itself to really lack backbone in this most important matter.

TAPPER: Yes.

KAINE: And we have got to demonstrate, just like we're demonstrating with this Iran bill, that we can act in a bipartisan way on a big- picture, big, important security matter. We have got to demonstrate the same with respect to ISIL.

TAPPER: Yes, quite a contrast, the courage of the troops going into harm's way and your friends on Capitol Hill there, Senator Tim Kaine.

KAINE: A huge contrast.

TAPPER: Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

KAINE: Thanks.

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