CNN "The Situation Room" Transcript: Middle East

Interview

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BLITZER: Very disturbing information, Rene. Thank you very much for that report.

Joining us now, Congressman John Garamendi. He's a Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee. Congressman, thanks for joining us.

REP. JOHN GARAMENDI (D), CALIFORNIA: Sure.

BLITZER: I want to talk to you about these concerns over this Iranian pact.

But, first, six American troops killed today in Afghanistan, three more seriously injured, the largest number of American casualties in Afghanistan in well over a year, what does this say about the current fight there?

GARAMENDI: Well, it says it continues to be extraordinary dangerous. We have known this. This is not a new situation, but this is a continuation of the last decade, plus a couple of years.

It is a dangerous, dangerous place and we're there for apparently the long haul. I think there is some good news also, and that is that there appears to be renewed efforts on the part of Pakistan to bring together some sort of a peace discussion between the Taliban and the current government.

I think that's a very, very important avenue, and it needs to be really seriously pursued. Otherwise, we are going to continue to see these attacks on American soldiers. And it is deadly, no doubt about it. And my heart goes out and sympathy goes out to the families who have lost their loved ones here on the eve of Christmas.

BLITZER: Yes, the Taliban claimed responsibility for this suicide attack, killing these six American troops in Afghanistan today.

You have also suggested, Congressman, that U.S. involvement in Afghanistan has cost the U.S. obviously a lot in blood and treasure, without really strengthening U.S. national security. There are still about 10,000 American troops in Afghanistan right now. They are supposed to come home by the end of next year. But do you see any way that can really happen?

GARAMENDI: I don't think so, not until there is some sort of a peace agreement between the central government and the Taliban.

When that settles down, if it is at all possible, then I believe there may be an opportunity. But I suspect we're going to see special forces and a limited number of Americans in Afghanistan for some time, not what we want, but it may be what is going to have to happen.

BLITZER: But it's not just the Taliban anymore. The Pentagon now estimating there could be at least 1,000, maybe 3,000 ISIS fighters in Afghanistan right now, and they suggest that number could go way up in the not-too-distant future. You would have U.S. NATO troops fighting the Taliban, fighting what is left of al Qaeda and now facing yet another threat, ISIS. This is big time.

GARAMENDI: Well, it is certainly is. But I think most of those ISIS fighters are disaffected al Qaeda or

maybe Taliban that decided to join up with ISIS in some way or another. I suspect most of them are local, from the area, and have decided that ISIS is the new hot thing to be part of.

But, nonetheless, it is a very dangerous place. And the -- as I have said a couple of times here, we're going to have to find some sort of a political settlement there and certainly we have to find a political settlement in Syria. And I noted that very successful progress was made in the most recent discussions at the U.N. in New York over the last couple of days.

BLITZER: Yes, I wouldn't get overly carried away by those diplomatic efforts, because they have totally failed over these past several years.

But, Congressman, stand by for a moment. We have a lot more to talk about, including this latest revelation of an alleged Iranian hack against a dam right outside of New York City.

GARAMENDI: Sure.

BLITZER: We will be right back.

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BLITZER: We're back with a leading Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee, Congressman John Garamendi of California.

Congressman, we're learning about this previously undisclosed attack on a computer system of a dam right outside New York City. The report suggesting it was done by Iranian hackers back in 2013. You heard our Rene Marsh's report on this.

Does this just underscore this new threat the U.S. infrastructure is facing from other countries?

GARAMENDI: Well, this is a major, major concern all across this nation.

Our infrastructure is vulnerable to hackers, wherever they may be coming from, even perhaps some high schools in the United States. But, yes, this is a major concern. And, frankly, I think we need to organize our government in such a way as to provide the best opportunity to stop these foreign attacks.

And, frankly, these are attacks on our nation. Maybe it's one dam here or electrical grid there, but these are foreign attacks. And I think it ought to be the responsibility of the Department of Defense to defend this nation against these kinds of cyber-attacks, wherever they may be coming from.

And that's going to take a reorganization and a new thought about how best to go about it. And for the countries out there, Wolf, why would you spend millions upon millions of dollars building an airplane or a rocket when you can just seriously damage America with a hack? It's a real problem.

BLITZER: So what does the U.S. do, engage in counter-cyber-warfare, if you will?

GARAMENDI: Yes, absolutely.

We have to be, first of all, defensive, set up our defenses to understand where these are coming from, where our vulnerabilities are, and set in place the firewalls, the defensive systems against that, and then understand where the attack is coming from. Not always easily done, but we need to make it very, very clear that if you're attacking the critical infrastructure of this nation, whether its a dam or Wall Street or the financial institutions, you're attacking America and we will consider that to be very serious, and you can expect a counterpunch.

BLITZER: You heard the mayor of this town where this dam is outside of New York in Rye, in Westchester County, suggest this could have been a dress rehearsal, if you will, to see how far they could go and get ready for a much bigger attack down the road. Do you buy that?

GARAMENDI: Yes, I do.

And we know that we have seen many intrusions, some of them coming from China. Wow, what happened? How did they get into the database for all government workers? How did that happen? Did it come from China? Indications are that it did. Maybe we didn't hammer them hard enough.

But this has got to be defended, and this is a very, very serious problem. And as I said a moment ago, why would you do a standard military attack, when you can, conceptionally, do much greater harm using cyber-warfare?

BLITZER: The cyber-attacks, they are coming from individuals, whether in China or Russia, Iran, North Korea, for that matter, but is it always true these are really government-sponsored, government- initiated attacks?

GARAMENDI: I think there is plenty of evidence to indicate exactly that.

They try to hide it, but I think it is organized. I think it is coming from perhaps rogue individuals, but I think, clearly, we have seen evidence that it is coming from at least some parts of governments around out there. You mentioned China, North Korea. There is evidence that, yes, those governments are sponsoring these attacks.

And we need to make it very clear to them that that is not acceptable and they can expect some sort of counterpunch.

[18:20:02]

BLITZER: So, what I hear you saying, Congressman, right now, you don't think the U.S. government, the administration, whether the Defense Department, the intelligence community, the FBI, they are not at full speed on this yet; they have a ways to go?

GARAMENDI: I think we need to organize ourselves in the very best possible way.

If it is a cyber-attack coming from outside the United States, then it is the role, in my view, of the Department of Defense to defend this nation. And that's a very -- we do it for, I don't know, incoming ballistic missiles. We have spent the better part of almost 60 years now figuring out how to defend ourselves from attacks in the standard military sense of the word, a missile, an airplane, a bomb of some sort.

But this is a new era in which serious damage can be done, including the loss of life, maybe dozens, if not even more lives lost in some sort of cyber-attack, and so we need to organize ourselves. And all of those agencies that you just described, yes, they are doing -- they're doing a very good job, because even though we have seen data breaches at the Office of Personnel Management at the federal government, and you cited Juniper systems a moment ago -- those are serious.

And we need to understand this is the most likely way in which some rogue group, perhaps Taliban or ISIS or some other group of that sort, or some nation that is out there playing around trying to figure out where our vulnerabilities are, so, if the time comes, they would use it.

BLITZER: Congressman, thanks very much for joining us.

GARAMENDI: Sure. Thank you.

BLITZER: Just ahead...

GARAMENDI: And happy holidays.

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