Fox News "Sunday with Chris Wallace" - Transcript: Trump's Financial Record

Interview

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We're joined now by Texas Senator Ted Cruz who has been locked in a fierce battle for weeks to win the Iowa caucuses.

And, Senator, welcome back to "Fox News Sunday."

CRUZ: Thank you, Chris. Good to be with you.

WALLACE: Let's start with the new Des Moines Register poll. Three weeks ago, you were beating Trump by three points. Now, you're trailing by five points.

How do you explain the eight point swing away from you?

CRUZ: You know, Chris, I'm thrilled to be where we are. We're 36 hours away from the Iowa caucuses and we're in a statistical dead heat first place. If you told me ten months ago we've been where we are now, we would have been thrilled it with.

Right now, this is all about turnout. This is all about who shows up tomorrow night at 7:00 p.m., and we're focused on if conservatives come out, we will win. What we're seeing is if the old Reagan coalition coming together. We're seeing conservatives and evangelicals and libertarians and Reagan Democrats.

And if conservatives come out, we're going to win tomorrow.

WALLACE: Donald Trump is hitting you on several fronts. And here's what he had to say in an interview we did last night. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: He's got a situation where he didn't disclose Goldman Sachs. He didn't disclose Citibank on his personal financial disclosure form. He didn't disclose to a lot of people the whole thing where he was born in Canada.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

WALLACE: Between all that and the fact that you oppose the very popular ethanol mandate here in Iowa, are you in danger of losing a conservative state that would seem perfectly made for you and even you have admitted that if Trump were to win Iowa and New Hampshire, as you put it, he might become unstoppable?

CRUZ: You know, Chris, I've got to say, Donald looks very rattled there. I mean, it's interesting. A month ago, he was singing my praises everywhere he went. I was his friend. I was terrific.

WALLACE: Well, in fairness, you were singing his praises a month ago.

CRUZ: But, Chris, I still am singing his praises. What he has changed to doing is insulting me every day, you know, attacking me. He knows this loan story as complete nonsense. It's also the height of chutzpah for someone who owes hundreds --

WALLACE: That's a New York -- that's a New York value.

CRUZ: It is. I'm trying to help Donald with that.

WALLACE: OK.

CRUZ: But for someone who owes of hundreds of millions of dollars if not billions of dollars, to attack Heidi and me because we put our life savings into running for Senate. And a statement that the loans weren't disclosed, he knows that's flat-out false. The loans were disclosed.

WALLACE: What do you mean he owes --

CRUZ: If you look at his financial disclosure, he owes at least $480 million right now, and it could be billions. And, by the way with, loans when Heidi and I take loans, we pay them back. Donald declared bankruptcy four times.

And so, for him to sit there owing hundreds of millions or billions or who knows, and to criticize Heidi and me for putting our entire net worth into the campaign is astonishing. It is not honest, especially because the loans were disclosed, that were publicly disclosed at the time. The entire complaint of "The New York Times" that Donald has seized upon is that they were filed on the wrong form, that I filed on the Senate form rather than the FEC form.

But here's the important point, Chris -- Donald is engaging in daily insults. I'm not responding in kind. I have not insulted him. I don't intend to insult him.

WALLACE: You just talked about the fact that he owes half a billion dollars.

CRUZ: That's not insult, that's a fact. He's attacking me on this loan and he has said, you didn't play that quote, but that I'm corrupt and owned by the banks. I mean, he's -- he has -- he called me a Canadian anchor baby.

And you know what? That's fine. He's entitled to do that.

There's a reason he's engaging in personal insults. He doesn't want to talk about the issues. He doesn't want to talk about the substance. The same reason he skipped the Iowa debate because his record is inconsistent with --

(CROSSTALK)

WALLACE: As you know, we have an interview that we did last night with him and I play exactly that clip of you saying he's trying to hide his record. I want to drill down --

CRUZ: But let's take a second on his record then. I mean, let's not just have the insults. Let's actually look at the record that --

(CROSSTALK)

WALLACE: All I'm saying is we confront him on that record. So --

CRUZ: Well, for example, on Obamacare, Donald Trump supports expanding Obamacare to make it full on socialized medicine like Bernie Sanders. You got Hillarycare, Obamacare and Trumpcare. And if Donald Trump is elected president, the federal government will be in charge of every one of our health care.

And, by the way, that's his position right now. It is identical to Hillary Clinton.

WALLACE: Right.

I want to drill down into Cruz-care, because there is a statement you made about Obamacare that has gotten a lot of attention since the debate. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRUZ: We have seen now in six years of Obamacare that it's been a disaster. It is the biggest job killer in this country, millions of Americans have lost their jobs and have been forced into part time work, have lost their health insurance, have lost their doctors, have seen their premiums skyrocket.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: But, Senator, the fact checkers say you're wrong. Since that law went into effect, the unemployment rate fell from 9.9 percent to 5 percent, as 13 million new jobs were created and 16.3 million people who were previously uninsured now have coverage.

Now, don't get me wrong, there are plenty of problems with Obamacare. But more people have jobs and health insurance than they did before Obamacare.

CRUZ: Chris, the media fact checkers are not fair and impartial. They are liberal, editorial journalists. And they have made it their mission to defend Obamacare.

(CROSSTALK)

WALLACE: There's certainly no question that more people have jobs and more people have health insurance coverage.

CRUZ: Yes, there is question. Number one, we have the lowest percentage of Americans working today of any year since 1977. That's fact. They focused on --

WALLACE: But there are 13 million jobs created, sir. That's a fact.

CRUZ: The fact is that from 2008 to today, we've seen economic growth of 1.2 percent on average.

(CROSSTALK)

CRUZ: Chris, don't interrupt me. I'll give an answer --

WALLACE: That's changing the subject.

CRUZ: No.

WALLACE: Thirteen million new jobs have been created.

CRUZ: And that is a historically slow rate of job creation if you look at what has occurred in any previous year. You know, Obama is the first president ever to have a year of 3 percent economic growth. Millions of people in this country are hurting.

One of the problems is you've got the elite, the Washington elite, the rich have gotten richer under Barack Obama. The top one percent are in a higher share of our income than any year since 1928. But working men and women are hurting.

And I'll tell you, you know, representing Texas, one of the things I do when I go home is I host small business roundtables. And I bring together 20, 30 small business owners around the table and just ask them, share what's on your heart. Share what you're thinking about. Share what you're praying about.

I have never done a small business table where at least half the small business owners didn't list Obamacare as the single biggest obstacle they're facing. Millions of Americans have lost their jobs and the people have been forced into part time work. Or lost their health care or lost their doctors or seen their premiums skyrocket.

WALLACE: Let's talk sir about your alternative, what you say you would do after you repeal Obamacare, how you would replace it. And this is what you listed in the debate.

Sell health insurance across state lines, expand health saving accounts, make insurance portable so you can take it with you if you switch jobs. Now, conservative think-tanks say those are good ideas. They also say they would have no effect in giving people who are now uninsured health coverage.

CRUZ: Well, that's simply not the case. So, for example, the biggest barrier to access is cost. If you want more people covered, what you want is lower costs. When you ask people, "Why don't you have health insurance", they say, "Gosh, I can't afford it."

Allowing people to purchase health insurance across state lines would create a true 50-state national marketplace. That would drive down the cost and expand the availability of low cost catastrophic coverage.

WALLACE: But, sir, the Congressional Budget Office, nonpartisan, the National Center for Policy Analysis, certainly not a left wing group, have both said that that kind of selling insurance across state lines would have minimal effect in expanding access.

CRUZ: Well, I can't speak to what the CBO can say. What I can tell you is if you want more people to have choices, you want more choices and lower costs. That's what gives more people health insurance.

If you want fewer people to have health insurance, if you want fewer choices and higher cost, which is what Obamacare does. For example, President Obama told the American people that under Obamacare the average family's premium would drop $2,500. In fact, the average family's premiums have risen $3,000.

Now, Chris if, you're a single mom, if you're struggling to feed your kids, $5,500, that is real money that you can't provide for your family. And this law is a disaster. People are hurting.

I'll tell you, as I travel the country, everywhere I go, I talk to people. You know, we had an event Friday night. Let me give you --

(CROSSTALK)

WALLACE: We're running out of time and you guys agreed to 10 minutes. And I just want to ask you two more questions.

Look, nobody doubts there are problems with Obamacare. I just want to explore those issues with you.

CRUZ: Sure. Happy to.

WALLACE: One thing that struck me in the debate is that the other candidates disagreed with you sharply. But it wasn't about policies. It was more than that. Take a look, sir.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RAND PAUL, R-KY., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What is particularly insulting, though, is that he is the king of saying, oh, you're for amnesty. Everybody is for amnesty except for Ted Cruz.

RUBIO: This is the lie that Ted's campaign has built on -- and Rand touched upon it -- that he's the most conservative guy and everyone else is a -- you know, everyone else is a RINO. The truth is, Ted, throughout this campaign, you've been willing to say or do anything in order to get votes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Senator, that's --

(LAUGHTER)

WALLACE: You laugh. But that's not the normal political discourse. That seems personal.

CRUZ: Listen, six weeks ago, every candidate in the Republican field was attacking Donald Trump. Today, they're all attacking me. I think that reflects the race has changed.

I understand in that debate -- part of the reason Donald skipped that debate, part of the reason he was afraid to stand before the men and women of Iowa is he didn't want that scrutiny. So, naturally, everyone else is shooting at me. That's fine. That's their prerogative.

I'm not going to respond in kind when, you know, when people engage in those sorts of attacks. Now, I will talk about substance. So, for example, on the question of amnesty, it is a fact that right now, Marco Rubio advocates amnesty for 12 million people here illegally. He advocates legalization and citizenship for everyone here illegally. He even advocates amnesty for criminal who are here illegally.

It is also a fact that Marco has said whether went on Spanish television with Jorge Ramos that he would not revoke President Obama's illegal executive amnesty on the first day in office. He said you can't do that overnight. That's going to take time.

If I'm elected president, I will rescind every single one of President Obama's illegal executive orders on day one.

WALLACE: We got -- we got a minute left.

CRUZ: Sure.

WALLACE: Finally, you and I had a couple of run ins in the debate. One of them was about whether or not you qualified for a 30-second response. Let's revisit it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: The question was about -- it's not my question that you get a chance to respond to, it's his answer. You don't get 30 seconds to respond to me.

CRUZ: Your question was you have disagreed --

(CROSSTALK)

WALLACE: You don't get 30 seconds to respond to me.

I like to go on, sir. I know you like to argue about the rules, but we're going to conduct the debate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: A number of observers thought that you threw yourself off there, that arguing about the rules.

Do you think that sometimes your lawyerly instincts get in your way? And you have 30 seconds to respond, sir.

CRUZ: Look, I was surprised you didn't let me respond there. That's your prerogative. I'm happy to respond that to whatever you like, Chris.

WALLACE: And? I mean, the general question is to whether or not sometimes you get down into the rules as opposed to --

CRUZ: Look, I'm not interested in a rules debate. What I'm interested in is 36 hours from now, the men and women of Iowa are going to caucus. And we have a grassroots army. We've got 12,000 volunteers in the state.

Let me give you an example of what we're seeing on the ground. Friday night, we were in Wilton, Iowa. There are 2,800 people that live in Wilton, Iowa, we had 700 come out to our event. A third nearly of the town came out. We're seeing that every day.

And this race is a simple choice. A vote for Marco Rubio is a vote for amnesty. And a vote for Donald Trump is a vote for Obamacare.

The reason conservatives are uniting behind our campaign is because I am the only candidate in the race who has been a consistent conservative, who's been a fiscal conservative, a social conservative, a national security conservative, and the stakes are too high for us to roll the dice and take a risk.

WALLACE: Senator Cruz, thank you. Thanks for your time.

CRUZ: Thank you, Chris.

WALLACE: I know you're awfully busy in this final day. We'll see how the world turns tomorrow night.

CRUZ: I look forward to it.

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