CBS "Face the Nation" - Transcript: On Presidential Debate and ISIS

Interview

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

DICKERSON: Joining us now from Des Moines is Democratic presidential candidate and Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders.

Senator Sanders, I want to ask you, pick up right where we left off last night. You mentioned that climate change in fact is related to terrorism. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (VT-I), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, that's not only my observation, John. That is what the CIA and the Department of Defense tells us.

And the reason is pretty obvious. If we are going to see an increase in drought and flooding and extreme weather disturbances as a result of climate change, what that means is that peoples all over the world are going to be fighting over limited natural resources.

If there is not enough water, if there is not enough land to grow your crops, then you're going to see migrations of people fighting over land that will sustain them. And that will lead to international conflicts.

I think, when we talk about all of the possible ravages of climate change, which, to my mind, is just a huge planetary crisis, increased international conflict is one of the issues that we have got to appreciate will happen.

DICKERSON: But how does drought connect with attacks by ISIS in the middle of Paris?

SANDERS: Well, what happens, say, in Syria, for example -- and there's some thought about this -- is that, when you have drought, when people can't grow their crops, they're going to migrate into cities.

And when people migrate into cities, and they don't have jobs, there's going to be a lot more instability, a lot more unemployment. And people will be subject to the types of propaganda that al Qaeda and ISIS are using right now.

So, where you have discontent, where you have instability, that's where problems arise. And, certainly, without a doubt, climate change will lead to that.

DICKERSON: I will switch now to domestic issues.

The topic of Wall Street, I want to ask you both about the political idea of Wall Street, and then also the substantive debate you had with Hillary Clinton.

First, the Democrats have been having a debate about how to build the party, why Democrats are doing poorly at everything but the presidential level. And some Democrats argue that the fight over how to regulate Wall Street, the idea of breaking up the banks, the idea of basically making Wall Street a boogeyman, is important, not just substantively, but also to send a message to voters across the country that this is a party that wants to realign the playing field.

Do you see that in -- do you see it in that way?

SANDERS: Well, I think, in this case, good public policy is good politics.

What you have on Wall Street is a handful of banks with incredible economic and political power. These are the people whose greed and recklessness and illegal behavior destroyed the lives or impacted the lives of millions and millions of people who lost their homes, their jobs and their life savings.

Then they got bailed out by the taxpayers. And, today, three out of the four largest are bigger than they were before we bailed them out. These are with -- six large banks have assets equivalent of 56 percent of the GDP of the United States of America.

To me, it is obvious. And, by the way, I should tell you, as somebody who led the effort against deregulation, we have got to break them up, so that we don't go through another economic meltdown. And we have got to break them up because they simply have too much economic power.

They issue two-thirds of the credit cards and one-third of the mortgages in America. So, I think reestablishing Glass-Steagall and breaking them up is good public policy. And it is what the American people want to see happen.

DICKERSON: After the first Democratic debate, Paul Krugman, who -- wrote in "The New York Times" a piece that said, basically, because there's going to be Republican House, there -- it's limited in terms of what a Democratic president can do to change the banks, and, therefore, you and Hillary Clinton are roughly equivalent, because you would never be able to get passed what you would want to get passed.

What do you think of that argument?

SANDERS: Well, John, you know, I have heard that argument many, many times. And I really don't accept that.

What I am trying to do in this campaign, with some success, is to call for what I call a political revolution, to rally millions of people, many of whom have given up on the political process, young people who have never been involved before. Working people have been so alienated by big money in politics, they have kind of tuned out.

And we're trying to bring them together. And when you bring people together to fight for an agenda, raising the minimum wage to 15 bucks an hour, pay equity for women workers, creating millions of jobs by rebuilding our infrastructure, and taking on Wall Street and breaking up these banks, I think you can do it.

You can only do it, however, if millions of people get involved in the political process in a way that they are not involved right now.

DICKERSON: Senator, I have -- we have just a minute before the commercial break. I feel it's like last night all over again.

(LAUGHTER)

DICKERSON: I want to ask you about the CBS poll that we have on this question. We asked, who could bring more change to Washington? Sixty-two percent said Hillary Clinton; 51 percent said you.

Do you need to draw the distinction between you and Hillary Clinton more starkly for Democratic voters?

SANDERS: Well, I think the answer is yes.

But I have to tell you, John, we started this campaign at something like 3 or 4 percent in the polls. We have come a long way in the six months that I have been in this race. I think, the more people are familiar with Bernie Sanders and the programs that I'm advocating and what I have been trying to do in Congress, the better we are going to do.

But Hillary Clinton and I have very substantive disagreements on a number of major issues. And I think what democracy is about is letting the American people hear those differences.

DICKERSON: Well, thank you, Senator Sanders.

We did that last night. And we look forward to doing it with you again on this show.

We will be right back in a moment with our Democratic debate.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DICKERSON: When word came of the multiple attacks in Paris Friday, the road map for our CBS News Democratic debate changed dramatically.

We had planned to question the candidates about how to they would deal with a crisis, but, suddenly, there was an actual crisis, an escalation of a serious international terror threat, that presented a host of questions for the next president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have to look at ISIS as the leading threat of an international terror network.

It cannot be contained. It must be defeated. There is no question in my mind that, if we summon our resources, both our leadership resources and all of the tools at our disposal, not just military force, which should be used as a last resort, but our diplomacy, our development aid, law enforcement, sharing of intelligence in a much more open and cooperative way, that we can bring people together.

But it cannot be an American fight. And I think what the president has consistently said -- which I agree with -- is that we will support those who take the fight to ISIS.

MARTIN O'MALLEY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would disagree with -- with Secretary Clinton, respectfully, on this score.

This actually is America's fight. It cannot solely be America's fight. America is best when we work in collaboration with our allies. America is best when we are actually standing up to evil in this world.

And ISIS, make no mistake about it, is an evil in this world. ISIS has brought down a Russian airliner. ISIS has now attacked a Western democracy in -- in France. And we do have a role in this.

SANDERS: This is a war for the soul of Islam. And those countries who are opposed to Islam, they are going to have to get deeply involved in a way that is not the case today.

We should be supportive of that effort. So should the U.K. So should France. But those Muslim countries are going to have to lead the effort. They are not doing it now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DICKERSON: CBS News conducted an overnight poll of Democratic and independent voters who watched the debate; 51 percent said Hillary Clinton won, 28 percent said Bernie Sanders, and 7 percent gave the win to Martin O'Malley.

We will have more poll numbers and analysis on last night's debate in our next half-hour.

We will be right back.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Source