MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show"- Transcript: Interview with Todd Rutherford about the Confederate Flag

Interview

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MADDOW: So, on the side of the Confederate flag staying at the state
capitol we`ve got "The Dukes of Hazzard", ISIS and gay marriage. That side
lost. That`s the side that lost today by an unexpectedly large margin of
37-3.

Tomorrow, the South Carolina Senate is expected to hold a final vote
on this measure. If it passes as expected this means the whole issue could
reach the South Carolina House as soon as Wednesday.

Now, right now we don`t know for sure if the bill will be fast tracked
in the House, the way it was in the Senate or if they`ll slow it down and
make it go through the committee process. Instead of putting it right on
the floor. If they do, that it could drag the debate out much longer. But
if they go fast, they really could go fast.

Here`s something else we don`t know, though, about the House. We
don`t know if the bill to lower the flag on the state capitol grounds will
pass as easily in the House as it did in the Senate today. They need 82
votes to pass the bill in the House.

Right now, according to an informal whip count being taken by the
"Post and Courier" newspaper, it looks like they`ve got 83 votes. So,
they`ve got one vote of wiggle room if the newspaper`s whip count is
accurate.

If the House approves this bill, though, and if they fast track it the
way they did in the Senate, if those things like up, the Confederate flag
could be off the grounds of the South Carolina state capitol as soon as
Thursday. But a lot of things have to happen and fall in place in order
for that to happen.

Joining us now is South Carolina House minority leader, top Democrat
in the legislature, Todd Rutherford.

Representative Rutherford, it`s nice to see you. Thank you for being
with us tonight.

STATE REP. TODD RUTHERFORD (D), SOUTH CAROLINA: Thank you for having
me.

MADDOW: In terms of how I explained that process, is that what`s on
the table? What we`re waiting to find out over these next couple of days?

RUTHERFORD: You`re exactly right. The bill passed the Senate today,
got second reading. It has to get third reading tomorrow and then it will
come over to the House. Once it does, there`s procedural moves that will
put it on the calendar in the House as early as Wednesday. We hope to get
final vote as early as Thursday and send it to the governor to get it taken
down.

It must get the two-thirds vote on third reading. It doesn`t
necessarily have to have it on second reading, but according to the
statute, it has to have it on third reading and there`s some debate been
whether it needs it on that, as well.

MADDOW: There was obviously a very lopsided vote today in the Senate.
More lopsided than I think many people thought. My feeling about that is
that it may have been the arguments on the other side collapsed into self-
parody by the time it came time to persuade people in their vote. I don`t
know what actually happened.

But watching what happened in the Senate, does that give you more
confidence that you`ll get a bigger vote than you might have otherwise been
expecting in this House?

RUTHERFORD: It does. And Reverend Jesse Jackson came and addressed
our Democratic caucus today. He said in South Carolina we are better than
our politics. And we are.

It was disturbing to watch some of the debate in the Senate by the
pro-flag supporters. I anticipate a little bit of that in the House. I am
told there are 50 Republicans trying to come up with a compromise, some
other flag to go up on that pole. But as Democrats, we are going to stand
firm. We don`t want any other flags. We don`t want the pole, we simply
want it down.

MADDOW: In terms of the compromise they`re proposing, we`ve been
hearing rumors they might want some other form off confederate emblem that
signifies the confederacy but doesn`t have the same sort of visceral punch
as that Confederate flag we see flying out there now.

Is that what they are proposing? Do you expect that there is going to
be support for something like that?

RUTHERFORD: I think there will be support. As I said, I think they
have about 50 co-sponsors on the bill and they may be gaining a little
ground, but they need more than that and they`re not going to get it, I
don`t believe.

I think it`s important that South Carolina show we are moving forward,
that we`re looking forward to the 21st century, not looking back toward to
the civil war. It`s important that this flag that flies right now in South
Carolina did not fly during the civil war. There`s a lot of talk about
their ancestors fighting under this flag. That never happened. This flag
didn`t come about until after the war ended.

So, what right now we`re ready to move forward. We don`t want other
flags flying. We`re ready to keep our monuments. We hope they tell the
truth but right now, we`re not going to take any monuments off the grounds.
That`s one of their biggest concerns.

So, we`re not going to accept any flags and we`re not going to move
for anymore monuments to be removed.

MADDOW: South Carolina State Representative Todd Rutherford, right in
the middle of this big decision in South Carolina. Thanks for helping us
understand tonight, sir. Good luck.

RUTHERFORD: Thank you.

MADDOW: Thank you.

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