MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript: On the 2016 Democratic Primary, the Iran Deal, Medicare
Interview
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MATTHEWS: Of course, that was Florida Congresswoman and fierce Hillary
Clinton supporter Debbie Wasserman Schultz back in 2008, not long ago.
Now Clinton is of course running for president again. And Debbie Wasserman
Schultz is the chair of the Democratic National Committee. She joins me
right now on HARDBALL.
By the way, your former colleague former Congressman Barney Frank wrote
this in Politico just recently: "A long primary campaign will only erode
the benefit Democrats are now poised to reap from the Republicans' free-
for-all. I'm convinced that a prolonged pre-nomination debate about the
authenticity of Clinton's support for progressive policy stances will do us
more harm than good."
Is he right? Are we better off with Bernie out there making noise against
Hillary or better off without him? What is better?
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: You know, I think eventually the nominee of both
parties benefits from having the muscle that they need exercised throughout
a primary.
And I think it atrophies if you don't have at least the opportunity to
debate and discuss your ideas. And so I think it is healthy for us to have
a debate throughout our primary contest. I don't think we are going to
have a terribly long one, probably far different...
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: Well, suppose the obvious is going to happen. Iowa will be
close. Hillary Clinton may win out there. Secretary Clinton will probably
win in Iowa. New Hampshire is going to be very close. There could be an
upset out there by Bernie. Won't that pull her to the left, further left
than she normally would want to go and position herself? And will not that
weaken her in the general?
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Chris, what is going to happen throughout our primary
and throughout the Republican Party is the contrast is going to be
extremely clear that any of our candidates, Hillary Clinton, Bernie
Sanders, Martin O'Malley, Jim Webb, Lincoln Chafee, any of them, will focus
on moving our country forward, continuing job growth that we have had under
President Obama for more than five straight years.
We were at 750,000 jobs a month that were going down.
MATTHEWS: Linc Chafee can beat Jeb Bush? Linc Chafee?
(LAUGHTER)
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Absolutely.
MATTHEWS: Oh, come on.
(CROSSTALK)
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Listen, Chris, the American people are with Democrats.
MATTHEWS: OK.
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: I know you have to represent the party.
(CROSSTALK)
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: No, no, no. This is not about me representing the
party.
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: OK. Do you want to see Bernie Sanders speak at the Democratic
Convention, win or lose? Do you want to have him up there on the stage as
a socialist representing the Democratic Party? Do you want him up there?
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Bernie Sanders...
MATTHEWS: Do you want him on the floor of the convention?
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Bernie Sanders has been a good Democrat, caucuses with
the Democrats.
MATTHEWS: Should he speak?
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Of course he should speak.
MATTHEWS: Speak in prime time?
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: He should speak at the Democratic National Convention.
MATTHEWS: In prime time, with everybody watching?
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Bernie Sanders represents -- we are a big tent party.
MATTHEWS: So the answer is yes?
(CROSSTALK)
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: I did. I said yes. I can say yes again.
MATTHEWS: But in prime time?
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: I don't know what time he should speak.
MATTHEWS: Oh, maybe when nobody is watching, you mean.
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: No.
Of course Bernie Sanders should speak. He should speak in a slot where the
appeal that he has across the board, the progressive, populist message that
he has that resonates deeply and widely with the American people, not just
with Democrats, absolutely, that should be featured. We're -- the
difference between us and the Republicans is that we are really a big tent
party. Republicans talk a good game.
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: What is the difference between a Democrat and a socialist? I
used to think there was a big difference. What do you think it is?
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: The difference between...
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: Between a Democrat like Hillary Clinton and a socialist like
Bernie Sanders?
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: The more important question is, what's the difference
between being a Democrat and being a Republican?
MATTHEWS: Well, what's the big difference between a Democrat and a
socialist?
You're chairman of the Democratic Party. Tell me the difference between
you and a socialist.
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: The relevant debate that we will be having over the
course of this campaign is, what's the difference between a Democrat and a
Republican?
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: I think there's a huge difference.
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: The difference between a Democrat and Republican is
that Democrats fight to make sure that everybody has an opportunity to
succeed.
And the Republicans are strangled by their right-wing extremists. And so
we're watching them debate phasing out Medicare and a candidate who
actually said that President Obama would march Israelis to the ovens.
That's the kind of debate that is going on, on their side on. And on our
side, we're talking about the best way that we can help make sure that
every American has an opportunity to reach the middle class.
MATTHEWS: Let me ask you about the deal. Are you in or out of the deal
right now, the nuclear deal? Where are you on that?
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: I'm taking my time to really know that deal well.
MATTHEWS: I understand.
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: I'm going to go home and talk to my constituents.
MATTHEWS: I'm with you on that. I think it's worthy of a lot of
attention.
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: This is the most consequential decision that I will
make...
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: Let me ask you the tough question. If you vote it down, it is a
no..
(CROSSTALK)
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Me personally or Congress?
MATTHEWS: If the Congress votes it down, the president is overridden, then
you have basically voted a vote of no confidence against the president's
foreign policy.
And then the weird thing is, those on the right would say now we will cut a
better deal. How can they trust President Obama cut a better deal if they
knock down the only deal he's got? That's what I don't get.
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: But the problem that I see right now with people who
are saying they're opposed to the deal -- and the Republicans, I think,
have been very irresponsible, where they're unilaterally, immediately
coming out against...
MATTHEWS: They're not looking at it.
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: No, they're not looking at it. They're not taking the
time.
We have to be deliberative. And it's important to make a decision. And
the number one decision that should be based on is, what is the most likely
scenario that prevents Iran from ever getting a nuclear weapon?
MATTHEWS: Got to talk about Medicare. I know you care a lot about it.
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Yes.
MATTHEWS: Fiftieth anniversary. Good for America?
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Absolutely.
This is the opportunity to make sure that we can draw a contrast and
reemphasize our support for making sure that everyone has access to health
care throughout the entirety of their lives. Before Medicare, seniors
faced medical bankruptcy, families were medically bankrupt.
Republicans like Jeb Bush would phase out Medicare. Marco Rubio would turn
it into a voucher system. Every Republican on the other side supports
ending Medicare as we know it. Democrats would strengthen Medicare. We
already have...
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: That's a solid argument. I don't think the Republicans would
have ever created Medicare.
WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: We look forward to that debate. They certainly
wouldn't...
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: OK, thank you, U.S. Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz, who
is also chair of the Democratic National Committee.
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