NBC News " The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: Debate Before Engaging In War

Interview

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MADDOW: Joining us now is Congressman Jim McGovern of Massachusetts.

Congressman, thank you very much for being with us tonight.
Appreciate your time, sir.

MCGOVERN: Happy to be with you.

MADDOW: In the House, the way the rules is work is that if you`re not
in the majority, which Democrats are not, it is perceived that you
essentially have no power, the Republicans can do whatever they want. We
have seen a little bit of bipartisan interest in these matters that you and
Barbara Lee and Walter Jones and others are raising.

Do you think you can force a debate on the war against is?

MCGOVERN: Well, I do. And I should point out, we tried to force a
debate before we get into this latest war, and the Congress and House
overwhelmingly sided with us, saying if we`re engaged in sustained military
operations, we ought to vote to authorize it. That never happened. We`ve
been involved in the war for ten months.

But Barbara Lee and Walter Jones and I have a resolution that is part
of a special procedure within the War Powers resolution which allows us to
force a vote and a debate on whether or not we should withdraw our troops
from hostilities when Congress hasn`t authorized them. And we`re going to
push this issue.

And, Congress, the leadership has a choice. They can actually
deliberate and come out with their version if an AUMF, and if not, then
they`re going to be forced to debate and vote on what we have proposed.
But I think it is not on an abdication of our constitutional
responsibility, I think it is our moral responsibility when it comes to
issues of war to debate war and to vote on it and to take a stand.

You know, war is a big deal. And we ought to treat it as a big deal
and unfortunately, in Congress, war has become all too easy, and I regret
that very much.

MADDOW: You know, I`ve been watching some of the 2016 debate with
interest about this matter, because I wonder as inane as some of our
presidential politicking and that kind of level of fighting is in our
politics, there has been a lot of political fighting, partisan fighting
about the war against ISIS, whether it`s being well fought, whether or not
it was smart to do what we`ve done, whether we should be doing something
else, whether or not the sacrifices in these ten months thus far have been
for naught or whether they`ve actually accomplished anything.

Does that afford you any leverage in terms of getting particularly
more Republican support for a debate? I mean, I don`t mean you should do
it just for partisan reasons. I know you have principled reasons for doing
it, but I wonder if that gives you a way to make more people interested in
making this an issue in Washington?

MCGOVERN: Well, I think there are some thoughtful Republicans, you
know, who believe that we have to live up to our constitutional
responsibilities.

It`s ironic that the Republican leadership in both the House and the
Senate every day get up and complain about President Obama not consulting
with them or using executive action. But yet, when it comes to the issue
of war, they`re only too happy to do nothing.

And I think for a lot of members of Congress, unfortunately, it is
convenient to do nothing. I think some members of Congress don`t want to
take this tough vote -- and I can understand that. I mean, a lot of people
mistakenly voted for the Iraq war feel burned and would just assume stand
on the sidelines and be a critic and not have to take responsibility.

But it`s wrong. And we have, you know, brave dedicated men and women
who we`ve put in harm`s way and we ought to debate this war and I
understand that people are skeptical. I`m skeptical. I`m not thrilled
with what the president has proposed.

But this is a time to have skeptics get up and debate this policy and
question it so we don`t make the same mistakes we made before. I think
what we`re doing, you know, in Iraq and Syria right now, I don`t believe
what we`re doing is necessarily going to produce the results that we`re
being told. I think enlarging our military foot print is going to make
things worse.

But we ought to have that debate. Whether you agree with me we should
think of a different approach or we should give the president unlimited
powers, at least we should at least agree that this is important enough to
debate and to vote and to have a vote on.

And again, I think it`s cowardly and disgraceful that the United
States Congress, both the House and Senate are not debating this issue and
not voting on it.

MADDOW: If members of Congress and members of the Senate come to
Washington for anything, it`s to make decisions on matters like this.

Congressman Jim McGovern, thank you for trying to force it.
Appreciate you being here tonight.

MCGOVERN: Thank you.

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