MSNBC "The Ed Show"- Transcript: Congressman Emanuel Cleaver on Racial Discrimination
Interview
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
SCHULTZ: Joining me tonight, Congressman Emanuel Cleaver of Missouri, also
with us Michael Eric Dyson, Professor, MSNBC Political Analyst and of
course Professor at Georgetown University.
So, that last sound bite gentleman, they know how the hell they operate
their department and they weren`t going to do anything different about it.
Congressman, your reaction to the story.
REP. EMANUEL CLEAVER, (D) MISSOURI: I think it`s tragic and I think that
people around this country ought to read the report. The more people are
familiar with what was actually in the report and what the DOJ found, the
more people will realize that we still have a lingering problem on the
basis of skin color.
Think about this, the e-mails that were found that refer to the President
of United States as a chimpanzee. There was another e-mail dealing --
suggesting that Michelle Obama was in some kind of tribal dance. There`s
another e-mail that talk about black people and welfare. I mean I think
that...
SCHULTZ: So, why do those people still have a job? I don`t know if do
but...
CLEAVER: Well...
SCHULTZ: You know.
CLEAVER: Look, if -- one of the great cooperation of our country G.E. for
example had a CEO, who proceeded over the company when a report that was
devastating came out, talking about how horrible it was. I can tell the
stock holders and the board will get rid of them and quickly. And I think
some think has to take place in Ferguson.
SCHULTZ: You know, I find it hard to believe it all starts with the stop
doesn`t Dr. Dyson. I mean it start with the stop on the street. You`re
going to tell me that the police chief, and the captains, and the
lieutenant, and the sergeants didn`t know these numbers?
DYSON: Right, of course they did and the problem is it`s systemic. It
does begin with the stop but it doesn`t stop there. It`s reflected as the
congressman talked about in the very nature of the system itself. If you
got people sending e-mails back in forth in the police department of
Ferguson referring to the President as a chimpanzee, saying that he won`t
keep his job four years because no black man does, talking about Michelle
Obama in a tribal dance as kind of reunion then, you know, you got -- at
the very least racial bias.
But then when you look at the stops that were being made, its public
funding at the expenses of the poorest citizens of Ferguson. They were
funding that entire...
SCHULTZ: Yeah.
DYSON: ... community and especially the police department by stopping
black people and then making them go to court and pay outrageous fines.
And as result of that you had both an economic and systemic effort going on
as well as individual bias. And that double whammy is horrible and to the
congressman`s point. Looks at the woman who had to resign, Sister Amy from
Sony after e-mails were leaked.
SCHULTZ: Yeah.
DYSON: And they weren`t even directly attributable to all of the people at
the top but she had to go as a result of that. So, I think the Congressman
is absolutely right.
SCHULTZ: Congressman, how do you fix this?
CLEAVER: Well, first of all I think that the State of Missouri is going to
have this to perhaps step in. But before we get to that I think that the
Ferguson mayor, and city council and police, chief of department must sign
a consent degree. They need to say we`re guilty and tell us what we need
to do for correcting the problems.
If they don`t sign the consent degree they`re going to be taken to court.
And it`s going to be one of the most shameful court sessions in the history
of the country because of the dirty linen of that police department, and
that community for that matter, will be bought in from the public. Think
about this, they have a debtor`s prison in Ferguson because if you can`t
pay those unfair...
DYSON: Fines.
CLEAVER: ... fines for being stopped you end up going to jail when they
stop you and you have a warrant after your arrest, That`s debtor`s prison.
SCHULTZ: Well, we all know the actions of the governor of Missouri
throughout this entire ordeal. Do you think Congressman he`ll be
cooperative at this point and be progressive and move forward for change?
CLEAVER: I think the governor will. I think he may have made missteps
earlier on but I believe that this report -- he`s a former attorney general
for the state.
SCHULTZ: Yeah.
CLEAVER: He`s a former attorney general for the state.
SCHULTZ: Yeah.
CLEAVER: And I think when this report crosses his desk. I think he`s
going to realize that he`s going to have to use of the power his officer.
And I think that Jay Nixon will do that.
SCHULTZ: Dr. Dyson, what the people do with this numbers with this report?
DYSON: Yes, the Congressman is far more optimistic that I am. I think Jay
Nixon displays the kind of indifference and disingenuous distancing from
the problem that is part of the symptom here of what we got to confront --
so with the people (ph), this is number one. Understand that the
Department of Justice had a much higher burden approve to me. So when
McCullough takes a kind of consolation from the findings. That`s not true.
He had much more evidence at hand to prove that they could at least go to
trial to trial Darren Wilson.
Number two, we`ve got to lower the burden of the Department of Justice.
Eric Holder talked about this already. We got to find to way when we can
accuse people of hate crimes without meeting such a high burden. And then
thirdly the people of Ferguson have to make sure that they vote to put in
prosecutors, and mayors and other political representatives who represent
the interest of the majority of the people there and not a narrow sliver of
obviously...
SCHULTZ: And do you think will happen?
DYSON: ... who will.
SCHULTZ: And do you think will happen?
DYSON: Well of course.
CLEAVER: Yes.
DYSON: Yeah, I think that mobilization of people on the ground for voting
is important. But a social movement is growing out to Ferguson and I don`t
think it`s going to stop now.
SCHULTZ: All right gentlemen.
CLEAVER: It`s not going to stop.
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
Source