CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: Senator Tom Cotton on ISIS

Interview

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BLITZER: All right, Evan Perez, thanks for that report.

Let's talk about all of this and more with Republican Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas. He's a member of the Intelligence Committee, as well as the Armed Services Committee. He's a combat veteran that served in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Senator, thanks for coming in.

We have lots to discuss, but, quickly, this so-called ringleader Abdelhamid Abaaoud, do you know if he's alive or dead?

SEN. TOM COTTON (R), ARKANSAS: Well, Wolf, I seen the published reports that suggest he died.

He has tried to fake his death before in the past to throw authorities off the trail. This should be something that the French authorities can verify relatively quickly. His family is alienated -- I should say he is alienated from his family.

You would think they would cooperate and DNA testing would be able to demonstrate pretty soon whether it was Abaaoud who was killed.

BLITZER: Because the earlier suspicion was he was in Syria, in Raqqa, with the leader of ISIS, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.

Did the U.S., for example, -- and you have been briefed well -- did the U.S. know he was actually supposedly in France?

COTTON: Wolf, I don't think anyone knew that he was in Europe already and specifically in France preparing for these attacks.

One thing this highlights is some gaps in our intelligence collection, in part because of so-called end-to-end encryption, whether it's in a PlayStation4 or an app like WhatsApp or even iMessage on in iPhone. Increasingly, terrorists are able to use encrypted communications to avoid very capable intelligence services like France's service.

And that's something that we need to consider as a society, whether or not we want terrorists and child pornographers and drug traffickers to have access to these kind of very powerful encrypted tools.

BLITZER: I want to get to that in a moment. But wrapping up on this terrorist leader, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the whole notion, as you point out, that he once faked his death, do we know, do you know if there were other co-conspirators out there and there were other plots in the works right now?

COTTON: Well, I can't comment on specific plots, but I can say that we should assume that there are other plots going.

The show opened with a report about this video about striking New York. I feel like we have come full circle with the Islamic State now, because Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the leader of the Islamic State, when he was released from American custody during the Iraq War, reportedly told his American captors, "I will see you guys in New York."

It's clearly the intent of the Islamic State to strike us here in the United States. And that's why we have to go on offense in the war against the Islamic State to fight them where they are before they fight us here in the United States.

BLITZER: Earlier in the week, there was a video threatening Washington, D.C., by ISIS, now this revamped, revised video threatening New York City. What changes need to be made?

COTTON: There is no doubt that their intention is to strike the United States.

We now see that they have the capability to strike not just in Paris, but in Lebanon, where they killed dozens last week, and civilian airliners coming out of Egypt a couple weeks ago.

I think it's important, Wolf, that we all ask ourselves this question, you, me, senators, congressmen, President Obama, the American people. What would we do after a Paris-style attack in New York or Washington or Little Rock? We should do that now, whatever it is.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: What are you recommending?

COTTON: Well, first, we need to significantly increase the campaign against the Islamic State. We need to significantly increase the number of bombing runs we're conducting in Iraq and Syria.

Just in the last few days, the French have struck headquarters and command-and-control elements in Raqqa. We struck several dozen, over 100 oil trucks. Why weren't we doing that weeks ago? Why weren't we doing it months ago?

It's because we have too restrictive rules of engagement. More troops are going to have to go to the Middle East. Some of them are going to have to be American troops, not necessarily trigger pullers or door kickers out on the front lines, but the kind of professional support troops that the local forces need, whether it's the Iraqi security forces or the Kurds, or what have you, those artillery, intelligence, logistics, and so forth.

Ultimately, we are going to have to be the leader though in this coalition and that's something that we just haven't done yet.

BLITZER: President Hollande of France, he is going to be in Washington on Tuesday to meet with President Obama. And then he's going to Moscow to meet with President Putin. He wants a worldwide global attack force basically to try to kill ISIS. Should the U.S. be part of that?

COTTON: We shouldn't be part of a coalition with Russia, because Russia...

BLITZER: Why not? If the Russians want to destroy ISIS, what is wrong with aligning with them in that narrow area?

COTTON: Unfortunately, Wolf, Russia's actions speak for themselves.

Even after that aircraft was blown out of the sky two weeks ago, Russia's bombing raids in Syria still predominantly are striking coalition-backed opponent forces of Bashar al-Assad, not the Islamic State. Russia has aligned itself with the Shiite axis of Bashar al- Assad and Iran.

That is the catalyst for the Islamic State. To expect Russia and Iran to fight the Islamic State is like expecting gasoline to douse a fire.

BLITZER: But they have increased their assaults on various ISIS targets as well, right?

[18:15:01]

COTTON: They have, but, remember, Vladimir Putin is a former KGB spy. This is what the Russians called dezinformatsiya. Information operations distract from what their real objective is, which is to be a power player in the Middle East, keep Assad and his regime in power and to humiliate the United States and to frustrate us at every turn.

BLITZER: He's clearly furious, though, that 224 Russians, almost all of them Russians, on that -- on Metrojet airliner were killed by ISIS and he says they are going to pay a heavy price for that. Let's see what he does.

All right, stand by. We have much more, Senator Cotton, to discuss.

We have a lot more information coming into THE SITUATION ROOM right now. We will take a quick break. We will be right back.

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[18:20:26]

BLITZER: We're following the breaking news, a new video just released by ISIS directly threatening New York City, showing images of Manhattan, also a suicide bomber with a vest and a jacket, the direct threat to the city of New York coming after Paris.

The former police commissioner in New York City Ray Kelly is joining us right now on the phone.

Commissioner, how seriously do you take this threat against your city?

RAYMOND KELLY, FORMER NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: I think you have to take all threats seriously.

You know, they are trying to panic people, obviously, in the aftermath of Paris, but pretty much they have tried to do what they say they were going to do. Obviously, they are not always successful, but they lay out a plan. And they publicly put it forward. And I think we have to assume that they are going to try to follow through with that plan.

BLITZER: You think there are ISIS terrorists already in place, let's say, in New York or Washington, D.C.? A video earlier in the week threatened Washington, D.C., the nation's capital.

That there are ISIS plotters already in place ready to carry out a suicide attack along the lines envisioned in this new video?

KELLY: I think the big concern is the aspirational effect of ISIS.

It may not be people that have been dispatched from overseas, but we have seen the lone wolf phenomenon. We have seen many, many people radicalized in their basement watching videos.

Mohammed al-Dininki (ph), communications director of ISIS, has put out the message many, many times to do what you can to kill. Kill, kill, kill is some of the messages he puts out. That has an effect on some people.

And so the lone wolf threat, I think, is the type of thing that we have to be concerned about here. But, obviously, we have to be concerned about all of the potential threats, but that -- the inspirational power of ISIS is significant.

BLITZER: Because, in Paris, as you know, that was not a lone wolf or two. This was a highly coordinated, pretty sophisticated plot, multiple locations, a lot of people involved. And, apparently, there was a second plot ready to do and that's why French police went into the French suburb overnight and did what they did.

And they're saying there are other plots under way as well. I guess the question is, I know there are lone wolves out there, individuals who might be inspired to do awful things, but is there potentially a coordinated plot like this?

KELLY: Sure.

I mean, it's obviously a possibility. I mean, we are a free and open society. There are lots of people who come in, come out from overseas, people that are -- that can be U.S. citizens. We have seen primarily only U.S. citizens that have planned to commit jihad in the United States, not only, but certainly some of them.

So we can't exclude any of this. We need a 360-degree perimeter. We can't just look at lone wolves. We can't look at small groups. We can't look at threats only from overseas. I think the French had some unique problems. They were just overwhelmed by the number of people that they have. They're still overwhelmed at the number of people that they want to watch, the number of people that they are suspicious of.

We don't have a number that comes close to that, although, as Jim Comey said, there's about, I think, almost 900 investigations going forward. So that's still a lot of people, even though, proportionally, I think we have the resources to handle it better than the French have.

BLITZER: Commissioner Kelly, thanks very much for joining us.

KELLY: OK, Wolf.

BLITZER: And good luck to the people in New York City, of course.

We're back with Republican Senator Tom Cotton. He's a member of the Intelligence and Armed Services Committee.

Do you want to comment on what we just heard from the commissioner?

COTTON: Well, I agree with Commissioner Kelly that we have to assume the Islamic State wants to strike New York or any other American city and that's why we have to get back on offense in the war on terror.

And we have to assume that they now have the capabilities to do here what they did in Paris, which is a coordinated military-style assault that requires training and planning in advance, or what they did in Egypt to that Russian aircraft, which is smuggle a small bomb onto an aircraft that is American or that is en route to America and that we have to take that seriously.

[18:25:00]

BLITZER: Let me show you the picture that they have now released.

This is ISIS, a picture they released. Take a look at this, soda can, supposedly with a detonator, explosives. That was, they say, put in the cargo department in a suitcase on that Russian Metrojet plane taking off from Sharm el-Sheikh going to Saint Petersburg, blowing up 23 minutes later, killing all 224 people on board.

First of all, do you think that's legitimate, the picture they released?

COTTON: I have no reason to doubt that it is.

More importantly, I have no reason to doubt that they are developing that kind of capability. Remember, al Qaeda, especially al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula in Yemen, has been trying to take down a civilian airliner with these kind of advanced and unobtrusive bombs for many years, and they have failed.

Now they are going to be in competition with the Islamic State to try to take down another airliner. It's never a good time when you have Islamic terrorist groups competing with each other to see who can kill more Americans with the most advanced weapons.

BLITZER: Because they seem to have some pretty good, sophisticated bomb-makers, if they could do that.

COTTON: Yes. Well, just look at the suicide vests in Paris.

Those aren't just going out to a crime-infested neighborhood and picking up an AK-47 on the street. You don't just get suicide vests on the street. That takes real skill in bomb-making.

BLITZER: Senator Cotton, thanks very much for coming in.

COTTON: Thanks, Wolf.

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