CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: Senator Tim Kaine on the Middle East

Interview

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BLITZER: Elise, thanks very much. Joining us now, Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia. He's a leading

Democrat on the Armed Services Committee, as well as the Foreign Relations Committee.

Senator, thanks very much for joining us.

SEN. TIM KAINE (D), VIRGINIA: Absolutely, Wolf. Glad to be with you.

BLITZER: It's pretty alarming to me, the U.S. Embassy issuing this advisory, telling all American employees at the embassy, all diplomats, don't go into Sinai right now, pending the outcome of this investigation into the tragic crash.

It suggests that they fear that the terrorist rampage, if it's going on in Sinai, it potentially could have been responsible for this plane crash.

KAINE: Wolf, it really is too early to tell. And, you know, we hope that that's not the case.

But there has been an ongoing battle between Sunni extremists in the Sinai and the Egyptian government and others. And so it's a possibility, and we just have to do our best to get to the bottom of it. So, I think the caution is warranted. But, again, I hope that it's not the case.

But what it demonstrates is the -- is, you know, the challenge. Russia getting into the theater in Syria, you know, Hezbollah decided to go from Lebanon into Syria to back up the regime of Bashar al-Assad a few years ago, and then Sunni extremists started to bomb Hezbollah- connected and Shia-connected sites in Lebanon as payback for it.

So, the threat that Sunni extremists will take it out on you if you go into Syria to buck up Bashar al-Assad is a very real threat.

BLITZER: It certainly is. And let's not forget -- and you know this -- you're a member of the Armed Services Committee -- there are still 750 American troops right in the middle of Sinai right now. They have been there since 1979.

But this is an extremely dangerous environment. And as Barbara Starr just reported, four of them were injured in September when an improvised explosive device hit them. Are you comfortable with all those American troops in Sinai right now?

KAINE: Wolf, I'm really glad you brought this up.

The multinational force of observers that was put in place in the Sinai to help guard the Egyptian/Israeli border has actually been quite successful as a multinational peacekeeping operation. I went and visited them in February of 2014, saw a lot of American Army troops, but also working in tandem with Colombians and troops from Fiji and troops from all around the world.

But you were already seeing at that point a spike up in Sunni extremism in that area. There had been a bombing of a tourist bus near Sharm el-Sheikh that killed a number of Japanese tourists at that time. And then, of course, you have seen other activities like this one that raise significant concerns.

I do believe that the American troops that are there have the ability and the materiel to take care of themselves and defend themselves, but we don't want to see that area destabilized, so we have got to work with our partners in Egypt and elsewhere to see that we protect our folks, but also do what we can to continue this peacekeeping mission that for 35 years has been pretty successful.

BLITZER: It's been very successful. Let's hope they do have the proper force protection, as it's called, to make sure that those 750 Americans and the other international observers from Fiji and some of the other countries are protected as well.

Senator, we have much more to discuss. You're up on Capitol Hill. Stand by.

KAINE: Great.

BLITZER: We will continue our conversation with Senator Tim Kaine in a moment.

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[18:19:35]

BLITZER: We're back with Senator Tim Kaine of Virginia. He's a leading Democrat on the Armed Services and Foreign Relations Committee.

We're talking about U.S. special operations forces now heading to Syria, under 50, but, still, the first ground combat troops heading to this very, very dangerous assignment.

You believe the president should seek formal congressional authorization to upgrade, to move to this new phase in the war. He says he has that authorization based on the votes back in 2001. Why isn't that good enough?

[18:20:06]

KAINE: You know, Wolf, if you look at the 2001 authorization, it's very specific.

It allows the president the ability to go after the perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks. ISIL was formed two years after 9/11. ISIL is actually engaged in a battle with al Qaeda now in Syria and elsewhere. So, to claim that the authorization that allowed us to go after al Qaeda also covers ISIL basically would turn the authorization into a carte blanche for the president to wage executive war without ever coming to Congress.

I think that is highly, highly troubling. And since the president started the war against ISIL in August of 2014, I have been urging Congress to do the job we're supposed to do under Article I. Remember, the president has actually given us a proposed authorization. Didn't do it until February.

But it's been crickets up here since he did that. It's time for us to have the debate and shape an authorization for what is a growing and mutating war that is now encompassing not just Iraq and Syria, but many other nations as well.

BLITZER: Do you support his decision to send 50 ground combat special operation forces to Syria?

KAINE: Wolf, to the extent that we have had the briefing about why he is proposing it, I could certainly see myself voting for it as part of a strategy.

But I don't think the president should be doing this without a vote. You probably noticed that, about 10 days before, the president deployed 300 forces to Cameroon and sent us a war powers notification. These are forces to battle Boko Haram, and Boko Haram has pledged allegiance to ISIL.

So, now what we have is ISIL in Iraq and Syria, Afghanistan, Yemen, Libya, Somalia, and an affiliate in Cameroon. We're stretching ourselves thin, and Congress still won't have a debate.

BLITZER: The Russian role in all of this potentially very dangerous right now, with Russian warplanes flying around over Syria, U.S. warplanes flying around over Syria. They coordinate, but they're potentially -- there could be a disaster up over the skies of Syria.

KAINE: There could be a disaster, Wolf. You're right. And, again, it's just an indication of how complicated this is.

It's not just the growing number of nations, the growing number of troops. We have spent $4.75 billion. But you have Russia coming into the theater. You have the Syrian refugee crisis that has become the worst displaced persons crisis since World War II. There is one aspect, though, of Russia being on the ground in Syria that we need to really explore.

They're there because Assad was getting ready to topple, and they want to try to promote some stability. At least that is one overlap we have with Russia. We don't overlap them -- with them on much, and even we would define stability a little bit differently. But, remember, Russia has been in Syria for 50 years. The only military base they have outside the former Soviet Union is in Syria on the Mediterranean.

So, they have an interest in stability, and so do we, and, hopefully, in that small overlap of our goals, we might be able to help promote more stability there.

BLITZER: I spoke with Senator Rand Paul earlier today. He's with you. He says the administration needs formal congressional authorization to go to this, to escalate this war against ISIS right now. And he goes one step further. He says, what the president is doing is basically illegal, it goes counter to the Constitution. Do you go that far?

KAINE: I would say this, Wolf. I do not think there is a legal authorization for this war, but I put more of the blame on Congress' shoulders than the president's, because it's Congress that has an Article I responsibility. Whether or not you like what the president is doing, that doesn't change our responsibility.

And the congressional leadership, both parties, both houses have been kind of sending this weird message to the president, don't trouble us with this, because we don't want to get our hands dirty. It's politically challenging.

And so what you have in Congress is, we're the branch that's supposed to authorize war, but what Congress has decided to do is, it wants to criticize, but it neither wants to authorize nor stop what the president is doing. I'm faulting the president for not articulating a clear Syria strategy, but the blame for the unauthorized war is squarely on Congress' shoulders, because it's Congress' job under Article I to do this.

BLITZER: Yes, it's not exactly a profile in courage right now.

KAINE: Absolutely not.

BLITZER: These members are worried about a vote that could be controversial going into the next election, so they'd rather not have to raise their hand or vote yea or nay, for that matter.

I know you're taking leadership on this. Go ahead.

(CROSSTALK)

KAINE: But, Wolf, the thing that's so important is, yes, people are afraid of a vote, but we're making people risk their lives. Since we started this war, there have been American hostages executed, then American service members killed, not in direct combat, but who were deployed in the theater.

[18:25:00]

And now we have the first combat death. If we're going to ask people to risk their lives, we ought to be willing to have a debate and a vote about whether this mission is worth it. And if we're not willing to do that, we shouldn't force 3,700 people and growing to be over there thousands of miles from home risking their lives every day.

BLITZER: Yes, 3, 700 U.S. troops in Iraq right now.

All right, Senator, thanks very much for joining us.

KAINE: Absolutely. Glad to be with you.

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