CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: National Security and Russian Threats

Interview

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KEILAR: And joining me to now talk more about this, we have Republican Congressman Ryan Zinke. He's a member of the Armed Services Committee. He's also a veteran U.S. Navy SEAL, so he brings a really interesting dual perspective to this.

I want to talk to you, Congressman, about the Russian threat. But first I want to ask you what we learned from the FBI director yesterday, that there have been several threats that have been thwarted here in the past weeks. Have you been briefed on these? What can you tell us?

REP. RYAN ZINKE (R), MONTANA: Well, it's troubling. I have to commend the FBI and law enforcement officials. They did a great job out there protecting.

What could have been a devastating holiday turned out to be good. But it just goes to show, look at the threat we face. Our foreign policy and our military policy is make sure that we fight on foreign shores and not shores here. And you're looking at it. It's a failure of this president, I think, to take the offensive and fight on foreign shores, rather than here.

And when we don't act as a country, when we don't lead, there is no country, no nation on the earth that can stand in our place.

KEILAR: We heard from Senator Risch yesterday something very alarming. He told me in his estimation that at some point one of these plots will be successfully carried out here in the U.S. Do you agree with that?

ZINKE: Well, unfortunately, I do. But there's action we can take.

We need to secure our southern border. Clearly, the southern border is now a nexus between immigration and national security. It's a sieve. We have known it has -- and, look, we're a great nation are. We built the Panama Canal in the 19th century. We're up for a fence in the 21st. There's a lot of things we can and should be doing now.

KEILAR: We heard from the new leader of AQAP today, al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula in Yemen, Abu Hureira al-Sanaani, and he gave his first speech since he succeeded al-Wuhayshi, who was taken out by the U.S. in a drone strike, as the head of this organization. He's the new AQAP leader. What do you know about this guy? What concerns you about him?

ZINKE: He's dangerous. He's an ideologue. Clearly, ISIS has an agenda of evil. You're not going to reform ISIS.

And, quite frankly, our policy of air operations alone and very limited strikes, it is not going to work, it hasn't worked. It's not just me. It's General Abizaid, General Conway, those that I fought in Fallujah with. We all agree. We all assess. I think the way ahead is make sure we arm the Kurds.

We look at Syria and have a policy in Syria, probably root out ISIS in the Syrian desert and then Iran. As long as Iran has the influence they do within the territory of Iraq, the Sunnis are not going to invest in a centralized government and Iraq will continue to move in a three-state nation.

KEILAR: You just told us that you see the southern border, the security of the southern border, to be essential. You say it's the nexus of national security and immigration. Do you have any evidence that terrorists are trying to come in through Mexico?

ZINKE: There's been cases of individuals dressed as bin Laden come across in full daylight and make their way up to the I-10.

I have been at the border. I can tell you it is a sieve. And it needs to be corrected. In the last six months or so, there has been over 60 nations represented. It's not, as a lot of the people look at it, this is a South American problem, Hispanic problem. It's not.

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[18:10:00]

KEILAR: Is that recent? Is that recent, what has happened? And do you think terrorists are coming across the border?

ZINKE: I absolutely do. If I was a terrorist...

KEILAR: Do you have evidence of it?

ZINKE: Well, certainly, from the number of people that -- and the nations represented in the last six months, yes, there's evidence that it's multinational. And look, from a perspective...

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KEILAR: But I'm just -- I'm trying to get a handle on this, because there's a difference of it being a vulnerability, which I think a lot of people might look at and say there's a possibility, but is it happening? Are you seeing ISIS-inspired people, ISIS, al Qaeda? What do you know of someone coming across the border?

ZINKE: Well, unfortunately, the time we know when a terrorist attack will occur from our southern border will be too late. I think it's a risk.

I think the assessment from the experts, it is a risk. In my experience, given how large the border is and given how many people are coming across the border, I mean, look, if a child can come across the border, and we know there's hundreds of thousands of children that have, then what makes you think that ISIS and terrorists can't? And weapons of mass destruction...

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KEILAR: I'm not saying that they can't. I just want to be able to be sure if you're saying that they are or if they could.

ZINKE: Well, unfortunately, I believe the probability is the case where they are.

KEILAR: OK. OK.

All right, we want to talk to you more, Congressman Zinke, about Russia.

We are going to take a quick break and then we will be right back to talk about how big of a threat Russia is -- back in a moment.

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[18:15:54]

KEILAR: I'm back now with House Armed Services Committee member and former U.S. Navy SEAL Congressman Ryan Zinke.

And we're talking about threats to America's security.

Congressman, I know you were listening to General Joseph Dunford's testimony yesterday before the Senate Armed Services Committee. He's the nominee to be the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. And in his confirmation hearing, he was saying that Russia, this is a quote, "presents the greatest threat to our national security."

That was something that I think a lot of people were surprised to have -- to hear him say. Do you agree with that?

ZINKE: Well, certainly, it's time to send in the Marines. And I respect the general greatly.

I think, with Russia, though, Putin is shrewd, he's smart, and you can't negotiate with Russia from weakness. But I think the soft underbelly of Russia is, what's driving their ability to be aggressive is their energy. If you take the energy out of their economy, Russia is not so strong.

And all of a sudden, U.S., we have liquid natural gas potential, we have an enormous amount of petroleum. We can, in the words of Reagan, challenge Russia and put Russia in a box by the free market export of crude and particularly liquid natural gas into Eastern Europe. I think that's a check.

We're not going to put a carrier battle group in the Black Sea, but certainly I think we can check their aggressiveness with good old- fashioned free market.

KEILAR: OK. So, when he was listing potential threats, he said Russia, then China, North Korea and ISIS. Are you saying that you might rearrange that? ZINKE: Well, certainly, I think Russia is -- the nation-states,

I think Russia is among the top four. I think we can debate who's number one. Certainly, Russia is a threat, as long as they have the means to be aggressive.

And that means, with the Russian economy, they're a one-trick pony. They're about energy. And the U.S., we need to advance our ability to export crude and export liquid natural gas. I think that would check a lot of Russia's aggressiveness. Again, Putin is a very shrewd and cunning leader. And it takes great strength to stand up to such a leader and we need to do our part and show the free world that we're going to stand.

KEILAR: The secretary of defense yesterday, as we turn now to Syria to talk about this, he said this week 60 Syrian fighters have been trained as part of U.S. efforts to train moderate Syrian rebels to fight ISIS, because obviously U.S. troops aren't going in there. It's a $500 million program for 60 fighters. What do you think about that?

ZINKE: Dismal failure.

You look at Syria, one is, what's our policy in Syria? Are we going to support a regime change? Are we not? Are we going to cede the Syrian desert to ISIS, as we're presently doing? And if you're an ally of us, do you have the confidence we're going to be there? Am I shocked that there's 60? No, I'm not shocked. I'm disappointed.

But take it from a perspective of an individual that wants to be trained by the U.S. If they know that -- if we're not going to stand with them, and you're going to be targeted, your family's going to be killed because we're not going to be there for you, then why would you be trained by the U.S.?

So I think our policy needs to change and we do need to remove ISIS from the Syrian desert, we need to engage the Syrian Free Army much more than we're doing. But it is right now -- 60 individuals is a dismal failure and it will never bring the ball to the field.

KEILAR: Before I let you go, since you are the first Navy SEAL elected to Congress, I want to get your perspective on the plans of the Army to cut 40,000 troops over the next couple of years.

ZINKE: You know, I think our active-duty force needs to remain what it is today.

If we're going to cut, let's cut the bureaucracy. We have over 700,000 DOD employees. You don't have to fire anybody, but you can atrophy, you can do hiring freezes, you can look at our acquisition process.

There's a lot of areas within DOD that I think you can reform quickly. But the active-duty strength, I think it's necessary, considering what we face, nation-states, as well as an uncertain future.

[18:20:05]

In this, I absolutely agree with the chairman to come is, is that we face an uncertain world and our force structure needs to be adaptable and to a point where we can address our national security.

KEILAR: Congressman Zinke, thanks so much for talking with us.

ZINKE: Thank you. Been a pleasure.

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