CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: Domestic Terror Threats; ISIS Recruitment; Netanyahu's Address to Congress

Interview

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BLITZER: Pamela Brown, thanks very much.

Let's go in depth.

Joining us right now, Senator Angus King. He's the independent senator of Maine. He's a member of the Intelligence and Armed Services Committee.

Senator, thanks very much for coming in.

SEN. ANGUS KING (I), MAINE: Yes, sir. Good to be with you.

BLITZER: James Clapper, the director of national intelligence, points to statistics saying last year was the worst year in 45 years as far as terror attacks are concerned.

But Secretary Kerry says, it's pretty good right now. There seems to be a very, very huge disconnect there.

KING: I don't know where Secretary Kerry was getting his information. But it's inconsistent with what I am hearing.

And Jim Clapper today was very clear. The records are right there. 2014 was the worst year we have had. And I just -- again, I don't understand Secretary Kerry's testimony.

BLITZER: Is there politics here? Is he trying to downplay the threat from terrorism to make it look like the war against terror has basically been won? KING: I can't imagine he would try to make that claim, given the

totality of the news that we're seeing. We're seeing threats at home, threats in Europe and in the Middle East.

I just think he made a mistake. I'm not sure. I didn't see the whole -- I will give him this leeway. I didn't see the context of the whole statement. So, maybe it was a broader statement. But it doesn't stack up with the DNI totals.

BLITZER: Yes, it certainly doesn't.

All right, the Brooklyn plot, these three plotters, the older one, the guy arrested in Florida, he was the one who was giving the money for these two younger guys to supposedly go to Turkey and then cross the border, hook up in ISIS in Syria. Is there, as far as you know, the older guy, the money guy, was he directly linked, instructed, a direct connection to ISIS?

KING: I don't have any information that would lead me to think that.

I think this points up one of the real dangers here, is that they don't have to have a direct link. They don't have to be taking orders. I think one of the greatest threats we face, Wolf, is what they call lone wolf, people who are in America who have been radicalized. They can't get over to join this army.

And they do something on their own, go to a mall or an airport or whatever. I do think, though, if there's any good news in all of this, both in the London case -- in the Jihadi John case, and in the New York case, law enforcement and intelligence and cooperation between our countries worked.

We tracked these guys down. We knew who they were before they were able to do something damaging to our country. So, I think we have to acknowledge that the FBI and the other -- the intelligence agencies, you know, they had some successes today. Hopefully, they are going to be able to maintain that.

BLITZER: Yes, but it's sort of -- you can succeed a lot of times.

KING: All it takes...

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BLITZER: But if you fail once...

KING: That's right.

BLITZER: And Clapper, the director of national intelligence -- you were at that briefing. You were there today. He said 180 Americans have actually tried to go to Syria, supposedly to hook up with ISIS. That's a big number.

KING: That's right. It is a big number. And we're a country of 300 million. But, as you say, all it

takes is one. And this is a dangerous time. This ideology is so dangerous. And I think the identification of this guy from London...

BLITZER: Jihadi John.

KING: ... gives us an opportunity to go back into his history and try to see what happened, so that we can understand what's motivating people.

This guy apparently had a good education, bright guy. What happened? And they are claiming that he was mistreated by British security. Well, OK, but does that -- is that enough to go and start beheading people? I mean, it's...

BLITZER: The British government still doesn't want to -- even though we all know his name, Mohammed Emwazi now, the British government still doesn't want to confirm that.

And, as a result, I assume the U.S. government doesn't want to officially publicly confirm that's his name, although we all know now that's his name. Do you understand what's going on here?

KING: Well, quite often, when you have a non-confirmation like this, it's because of -- they don't want to reveal operational details or give away knowledge that they have obtained or how they obtained it.

There's usually some reasonable basis for that. But, as you say, it's pretty widely known. I'm not going to confirm it. But I think it's an operational intelligence reason for not officially going on the record.

BLITZER: Because it could compromise what they call sources and methods or some ongoing plot, if you will?

KING: Exactly. Exactly.

BLITZER: All right, so if you can't confirm it, you don't have to confirm it. But we do know his name.

Senator, we have a lot more to discuss. I want you to stand by, if you can.

We're going to get more on our top story, now the identification of Jihadi John, what happened in Brooklyn with this terror plot, much more coming up right after this.

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BLITZER: We're back with Senator Angus King of Maine.

And our top story, the U.S.-led coalition stepping up its search now for one of the most wanted and reviled terrorists in the world. That would be the man known as Jihadi John. But his real name, the real name of the on-camera killer now has been publicly identified, sources say his real name, Mohammed Emwazi. He's a British national. He was born in Kuwait. His family came to London when he was 6 years old.

I assume, Senator, if the U.S. could, the U.S. would like to kill this guy.

KING: I would not advise him to buy green bananas.

BLITZER: He is that wanted right now?

KING: Yes. I think he's going to be on the top of the list.

And he's -- what he has done is inexcusable. And I think he thought he was being this big brave guy with all the mask and stuff. None are so brave as the anonymous. Now we know who he is. And I think it helps us in our fight against ISIS to let them know that we know and that we're going to find out and that justice is going to find them.

BLITZER: So, we know the leader of ISIS, this guy Abu Bakr al- Baghdadi.

KING: Right.

BLITZER: This guy, where does he stand, this Jihadi John, in the scheme of things? How close is he, for example, to al-Baghdadi?

KING: I don't think we know where he is in the hierarchy. We don't know whether he was put out in front of these cameras because of his command of English or whether he's an actual leader. I have heard varying reports, but nothing confirmed.

But I think he is more than just a soldier. I think he is a leader in the organization.

BLITZER: Even though he is only, what, 26 years old or whatever.

And it's interesting that he didn't come from some poor background.

KING: Right.

BLITZER: Didn't have a job. This guy went, studied computer science, University of Westminster, graduated, apparently had all sorts of opportunities, came from an upper-middle-class background. All of a sudden, he starts beheading people on videotape.

KING: Yes. And that's one of the most disturbing things, because you can't just say, well, if we eradicate poverty, this will go away.

There's something deeper going on here. And that's why I say I think it's important to try to figure out how this happened. And there's an allegation that British security mistreated him and radicalized him in that way. I'm a little skeptical of that, frankly. I think that's maybe 20/20 hindsight. BLITZER: Yes, but even if you are roughed up a little bit by the

police...

KING: Yes. Do you go and behead people?

BLITZER: That's right. Do you then go off to Syria, join up with ISIS and get on videotape, start beheading journalists, if you will?

KING: Yes. Yes.

There's something -- but the problem is, we're seeing, there are now something like 20,000 foreign fighters that have gone into this struggle. And a lot of them are going back. And we haven't talked about Turkey in a while. But that's the jihadi highway. That's how they are getting into Syria.

And Syria has become this enormous training center. And these people are going back into Europe. We know from testimony today that some of them have come back into the U.S.

BLITZER: Turkey could be doing a lot more. They're a NATO ally.

KING: Could they ever.

That's one of the things that really has been a problem through this. In my view, they are trying to have it both ways. They are trying to be a NATO ally, but they're really not taking this on in a way that they could, because that is the path. I think I read somewhere 25 bucks will get you through Turkey and into Syria. And that's not what allies do.

BLITZER: Yes, it's a pretty, pretty awful situation.

Here is what else is awful right now. These ISIS terrorists in Syria, they are kidnapping Christians. Now the latest number, 262 Syrian Christians have been kidnapped, not just men, women, elderly, kids, young girls, young women. I don't know what they are doing with these Christians. But you have been briefed on this situation. What do they want with these poor Christians?

KING: Well, I got to -- I hate to tell you this. But part of their ideology is slavery.

And a lot of these people -- the women are being forced to marry these guys.

BLITZER: When you say marry, is it really getting married or is it just sex slaves? Because that's the assumption.

KING: You are a very perceptive guy, Wolf.

BLITZER: That's what a lot of the intelligence people I have spoken to, is that they get these young women and they basically give them to these young guys.

KING: Yes.

BLITZER: And that potentially is one of the incentives for these young men to come over there, because they know they are going to get these girls.

KING: Right.

And here -- there may be something here that we need to think about. And that is, the more brutal they are, the more they do those kinds of things, and we're now starting to get anecdotes out of Mosul, out of Raqqa about how they are treating the local people. For example, they are forcing them to give blood trans -- blood donations for the soldiers, daughters having to marry these guys.

A lot of pressure -- and, if you steal, they cut your head off and beheading people, crucifying people. And the expectation is -- and this happened in Iraq in Anbar back in the Sunni awakening -- they are going to wear out their welcome. This is not an ideology that's going to have broad appeal.

And the Sunnis sort of welcomed them in because Maliki and Iraq and Baghdad had been so unforgiving to the Sunnis. But my understanding is -- and this isn't hard intelligence. It's anecdotal. But my understanding is, they are starting to wear out their welcome. I think if we keep the pressure on, it could implode.

BLITZER: Yes. You saw what happened at that national museum in Mosul. They go in there and they destroy all those ancient artifacts, for no reason whatsoever.

KING: Right. Plus, they are burning all their bridges all over the Middle East. They are killing other Muslims.

And Jordan -- man, I was with the king of Jordan an hour, a couple of hours after he heard about his pilot being burned alive. He was very determined to get after these guys.

BLITZER: Yes.

Very quickly, the Netanyahu visit, the address before a joint meeting of Congress next Tuesday morning, some members of Congress, they don't want to go. They are angry that this whole thing happened. What about you? Will you attend that meeting?

KING: I'm going to go, Wolf. But I think it's inappropriate that he's coming two weeks before his own election, and that Congress is being used as a kind of prop in a presidential election in another country.

But I go to meetings. I go to hearings. I listen. I learn. So, I'm going to be there to listen. But one thing I hate is that this is now politicizing Israel in a partisan way that's never been the case before. And to see the Republicans trying to say, we're more pro-Israel than the Democrats, that's not good for Israel. I don't think it's good for the country.

The old saying is, politics stops at the water's edge. And it ought to in this case.

BLITZER: And you speak as someone who supports Israel. You're a longtime supporter of Israel.

KING: Very much.

BLITZER: But you just think the way this was all handled was a huge blunder, is going to -- but eventually they can fix this, I assume.

KING: Well, I hope so.

But there has been a deterioration in the relationship. And I just think that's bad for Israel and bad for America. And, again, to politicize this thing is, I think, a big mistake. I think I can understand John Boehner sent the invitation. OK. He wants to do that. I'm very surprised that the prime minister accepted.

BLITZER: Without even consulting with the White House or anything like that.

KING: Right.

BLITZER: Or that Boehner did it without even asking the Democratic leadership, are you OK for this invitation or anything like that?

KING: Yes. I just -- I think it was a mistake.

But, on the other hand, I have decided I'm going to go. I'm going to listen. But, hopefully, we are going to get by this and it won't impair the relationship long-term.

BLITZER: All right, we will see what happens.

All right, Senator, thanks very much for coming in.

Angus King is a key member of the Senate Intelligence and Armed Services Committees.

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