CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: On the Iran Nuclear Deal; Efforts Against ISIS; Religiously Motivated Terror

Interview

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BLITZER: Thanks very much, Jim Acosta. By the way, good interview with the Israeli prime minister yesterday on "STATE OF THE UNION," Jim Acosta reporting for us.

[18:10:03] Joining us now, Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard. She's a Democrat of Hawaii. She's a member of the House Armed Services Committee, also an Iraq War veteran.

Congresswoman, thanks very much for joining us.

I want to get what's going on with the Iran nuclear deal. But let's talk about the first American believed to be killed in the Yemen fighting, a man by the name of Jamal al-Labani from Northern California. Had a gas station there. He went back to Yemen to bring home his pregnant wife and child. But while there, he got caught in the crossfire, if you will.

And there are hundreds, if not thousands of American citizens, many Yemeni-American dual nationals, who are still there. Is there anything the U.S. can do to get those Americans out?

REP. TULSI GABBARD (D), HAWAII: I think it's definitely something that the United States should be looking at, that the Department of State should be looking at to see, how can we make sure that our U.S. citizens who are there still can be evacuated?

If you look at what some of these other countries who have large numbers of their own citizens there still in Yemen have done, I think there are opportunities for us which we should exploit and pursue to make sure that our American citizens are given the opportunity to evacuate, especially during this time of chaos and great unrest in Yemen.

BLITZER: Because, as you know, the U.S. abandoned the U.S. Embassy in Sanaa, Yemen, the capital. All the U.S. military personnel, they got out quickly.

And you're right. India, a few other countries, Russia, they are sending in planes to try to get some of their citizens out. Would you recommend -- and you are a member of the Armed Services Committee, you're an Iraq war veteran -- that the U.S. launch emergency aircraft to fly to see if some of those American citizens can be gotten out of there?

GABBARD: I think we have to look at what the risks are and what the situation is on the ground to make sure that we're not causing more danger, both to those who would go into rescue in the situation, as well as those who are being evacuated.

You mentioned India as an example. I think just in the last day or so, India sent in some of their navy ships or one of their navy ships and rescued over a couple of thousand people. And you are seeing coordination between these various countries to make sure that they are working together to get their citizens out.

So, yes, I do think that we should look at what are the options that are available to us as the United States to make sure that our U.S. citizens are -- have the opportunity to be evacuated from Yemen.

BLITZER: Congresswoman, listen to what President Obama said last September, not that long ago, about the U.S. efforts in Yemen and Somalia. Listen to this.

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BLITZER: That exactly hasn't worked out well. Both of those countries are failed states right now, the U.S. embassies evacuated. All U.S. military personnel, they got out of there quickly.

Here's the question. And I think it's a fundamental question. How did the Obama administration get it so wrong only last September in discussing the U.S. counterterrorist strategy in both Somalia and Yemen?

GABBARD: Well, I think if you look at what's going on in Yemen now, you are seeing still a relatively young country that is working out some very difficult differences in essentially what is a sectarian war.

And we're seeing this play out in different parts of the Middle East especially. And we can see this actually with what's happening and the importance of recognizing the fact that this is -- these are sectarian-fueled conflicts with what we just saw in Tikrit, in Iran.

We saw this military offensive strategy to drive ISIS out of Tikrit. And as I said before this offensive started, in order to do that and make sure it's successful, you have got to recognize the sectarian conflict at play and make sure that you have a plan for the Sunni people in this Sunni community in Tikrit to have governance and to be responsible for the security.

What we saw was, there was no plan for that to take place. And as a result, you saw these Shia militias who are basically led and being trained by Iran burning houses down, erupting in chaos and looting this town, which is creating more of a reason for the Sunni people there to turn away from this Baghdad central government and towards ISIS, who is offering them protection from Iran and from the Shia-led government in Baghdad.

So, this points to the necessity to recognize that what's fueling these conflicts, these sectarian-driven longstanding conflicts.

BLITZER: And even as we are speaking right now, Congresswoman, we are getting word the U.S. now saying that the government of India, which has been flying these emergency planes in to try to get some of its citizens out, other international citizens out, the government of India is now telling the United States, they will help get some American citizens out of Yemen right now.

What does it say to you that India is capable of doing this, but maybe the U.S. isn't?

[18:15:02] GABBARD: Well, I would not say that the U.S. is incapable.

I think that we have tremendous capabilities. And I think it's a matter of our leadership making a decision to either go and work directly or work with some of our friends such as India to be able to make sure that the American people who are in Yemen right now have the opportunity to be evacuated to safety.

BLITZER: Is there a concern right now -- and you are privy to sensitive information -- that AQAP, al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, which is based in Yemen, is being given some new breathing room? Saudi Arabia is launching airstrikes. But the U.S., for all practical purposes, got out of Yemen. No military personnel there. Drone strikes, for all we know, not necessarily going on.

Is AQAP likely to get a whole lot stronger at least in the short-term?

GABBARD: I think it's a concern that the United States should maintain, in its focus on fighting against these Islamic extremist radicals, such as AQAP, such as Al-Shabaab, who we have just seen conduct this slaughtering attack in Kenya, such as ISIS, et cetera, et cetera, and seeing how we can continue to focus on taking them out.

With the conflict that's happening in Yemen, I think it's complicated and it's continuing to evolve. I know that in the past these Houthi rebels have fought against AQAP themselves. And so the unrest there in Yemen I think will continue to evolve in ways that might be difficult to determine at this point.

BLITZER: Congresswoman, I want you to stand by. We have more to discuss, including the Iran nuclear deal, also what's going on in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Much more with Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard right after this.

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[18:20:56] BLITZER: We're back with Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard, a member of the Armed Services Committee, an Iraq War veteran.

We're talking about the terrorist threats that are breaking right now, including the hunt for the mastermind in the slaughter at that university in Kenya; 147 students were massacred, mostly Christians who had been separated from the Muslims.

As you know, Congresswoman, the president, President Obama, told Tom Friedman of "The New York Times" in that interview over the weekend, in his words, alienated youths, youths that are unemployed can be most vulnerable to the allure of terrorism.

But the suspect, one of the key suspects in the Kenyan terror attack at that university was a law school graduate, the son of a Kenyan government chief. How are these accomplished individuals recruited by these ISIS, Al-Shabaab, al Qaeda terror groups?

GABBARD: Wolf, you and I have spoken about this a number of times about the need to recognize really what is the true motive behind these groups like ISIS and like Al-Shabaab, like AQAP, as we just spoke about?

It's not about people who are alienated. It's not about people who are living in poverty. It's about people who are being recruited and attracted by this pseudo-religious ideology that these terrorist groups are motivated by as they conduct these killings like we just saw in Kenya.

Really, when you look at it, what they did there at that university, separating Muslims from Christians and then slaughtering people, simply because they are Christians, really is a clear example of what this is really all about, what their motivation really is. As we look at yesterday was Easter, we look at what Jesus Christ's teachings were, to love God, to love your neighbor, you look at Hinduism, you look at religions all around the world, the real meaning of religion is really about love. It's about caring for others.

It's about loving God and having respect and compassion for all people, regardless of their own religious practice, their own ethnicity, their own race, wherever they come from. This just points exactly again to this radical ideology that is really false religion. It's pseudo-religion that is fueling these terroristic activities.

BLITZER: And we also see now these images of fighters in Afghanistan showing their allegiance to ISIS with the ISIS flag. Does the U.S. need to rethink its strategy of eventually pulling out? There are still about 10,000 U.S. troops in Afghanistan now. There you see some video of these ISIS thugs who are now in Afghanistan with that ISIS flag. Does the U.S. need to stay there or just get out?

GABBARD: No, I think we have got to look again at what our goal and what our mission is and what we're trying to accomplish.

And our goal, as it should be, to be able to defeat this radical Islamic ideology-fueled groups like ISIS -- you see these other groups who are pledging their allegiance to ISIS. We have got to be able to work with partners on ground. We have got to be able to work with partners in the region to be able to root that out, not only militarily.

Obviously, that's a hugely important component, but also we have got to address the sectarian political conflicts that were happening there and we are seeing not being addressed right now in Iran. And we have got to again look at this ideology component and have a strategy to be able to defeat these groups simultaneously in all three elements.

BLITZER: On the Iran nuclear deal, the tentative framework as it is being called that was worked out, eventually, do you want the House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate to hold a formal role call vote to either approve or disapprove of whatever agreement emerges?

GABBARD: I think we will have to look and see what legislation comes forward.

But, absolutely, I think that Congress does have -- Congress and the American people have a role in expressing their opinion on this negotiated agreement and the opportunity really to look at the details of this framework that we have seen released so far and the ultimate agreement, which we will see in the next few months, because we have many questions.

[18:25:15] I have got many concerns, specifically about this agreement and how it will affect what our real basic interest is, which is making sure that Iran does not have the capability to develop a nuclear weapon.

BLITZER: So, you are not convinced yet that this is a good deal?

GABBARD: There's not enough information to be convinced that it's a good deal.

And I think that there's not enough information that's been released. But also there's not enough information that I can see that's actually been worked out, not only between the United States and Iran, but the other countries that are involved in these negotiations.

And I think it goes to core elements of it like inspections. There has to be the ability for inspections not only to these declared sites that we have heard that Iran has declared, but the bigger concern is what about the undeclared sites? The bigger concern is having the ability to have inspectors go in anywhere at any time to inspect and make sure that Iran is holding up its end of the agreement. We have got concerns about the sanctions. We have got concerns about

how quickly they will be rolled back. And the president is talking about sanctions being snapped back if Iran does not comply. But the reality is, these sanctions have taken quite some time to be able to have the effect that they have had. And they can't just be snapped back into place so quickly.

BLITZER: Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard, thanks very much for joining us.

GABBARD: Thanks, Wolf. Aloha.

BLITZER: Aloha. Thank you.

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