CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: On "Islamic-Extremeism"

Interview

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BLITZER: Let me get some more analysis. I want to bring in Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii. She's a key member of the House Arm Services Committee Iraq, were a veteran herself.

Congresswoman, what do you think? What do you think of that message? And as you know, he is still not saying what he wanted to say, talk about radical Islam, Islamic extremism, he's making the case that that would be counter productive.

REP. TULSI GABBARD, (D) HAWAII: Aloha, Wolf. Yes, I think that if you look at some of the conversations that have happened during the Summit and the president's speech that we heard just a few minutes ago, still I think it is a diversion from where we need to be focused.

If you look at this broad focus on countering violent extremism which is very hard to define, it's a diversion away from the actual threat coming from this radical Islamic ideology that exists not only for the United States but really around the world. And I think one of the things that is important to note is that the administration is misidentifying the enemy and their motivation by saying that they're motivated out of materialistic aspirations, that they're motivated out of poverty, of lack of jobs or education or opportunity.

And as a result, the courses of action that the administration is proposing are also materialistic in nature saying that well, if we just go and alleviate poverty, if we go if we go and create jobs and increase opportunity and institute this western style of democracy that somehow this is going to solve the problem when really that's not the case.

We can look to the past and see many different examples of where this has occurred, whether you look at Libya, you look at Egypt, you look at what's being proposed with Syria, and each of these different instances a dictator has been removed. There has been an attempt to institute western style democracy and each of these cases. ISIS and Islamic extremists are more powerful and presenting a greater threat than they did before.

So that's why it's so important that we recognize that these people are being motivated from different parts of the word by a spiritual -- theological motivation which is this radical Islamic ideology.

BLITZER: I know it's not easy for you a fellow Democrat to criticize as strongly as you have criticized the president for refusing to use those words but what do think the president now needs to do? He's given a speech. He's going to give another speech before the Summit meeting countering violent extremism tomorrow morning. But to follow up, what do you want him to do to crash ISIS and these other terror groups? And I ask you as a veteran who served in Iraq.

GABBARD: Well, you know, Wolf, the way that I look at this is from a strategic stand point and this is why I feel so strong that it's important for the president, important for the White House, the administration, the leaders in Congress as well in both parties to recognize that we got to learn from the mistakes of the past in order to effectively defeat this enemy that's threatening us and threatening the safety of the American people.

And the first step that must come to do in order to do that is identifying and understanding who they are and what's driving them and executing a simultaneous military and ideological strategy to defeat them. If we don't do that, then, we're going to continue to find ourselves in this endless cycle. This as you've seen has occurred in the past over and over again.

BLITZER: What difference would it make if it actually used the words you want him to use -- radical Islam or Islamic extremism? In practical terms what would the difference be?

GABBARD: By identifying this ideology which is a theological one that's driving them, then you can look at where they're recruiting. What are their methods of recruiting? You mentioned earlier in your piece that they're recruiting not only from places where people are poor but also from very rich democratic societies in this foreign fighters.

So by identifying who they are they need to look at their tactics, you can look at why they're doing what they're doing, the method they're using to recruit and grow their support and then, understand, OK. Well, this is what we need to do to defeat them in a way that is militarily as well as ideologically. And send that strong message to people who are looking to what ISIS has to offer and say, "If you join them, number one, we will defeat you militarily, you will be killed."

"And number two, the spiritual promise that they're selling that somehow this is pleasing to God is absolutely false that you're not going to heaven, that you're going to hell if you follow that path and commit these atrocities."

BLITZER: Congresswoman, I want you to stand by. We have more questions for you. We have more questions for our experts. We'll take a quick break. Much more analysis, much more reaction to what we just heard from the president of the United States right after this.

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BLITZER: We're following the breaking news, President Obama speaking just moments ago over at a White House summit meeting on countering violent extremism, defending his decision not to call the war against ISIS a religious war, if you will, saying the U.S. is not at war with Islam.

We're back with Democratic Congressman Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii. She's a member of the House Armed Services Committee, also an Iraq War veteran.

Congresswoman, the last few times you've been with me here in THE SITUATION ROOM I've asked you, since your initial criticism of the president for refusing to call it radical Islam or Islamic extremism or any of those phrases, whether anyone from the White House has contacted you, communicated with you, had a chance to speak with the president. The last time you told me no one has. Has that changed?

GABBARD: It hasn't changed. And I haven't had the opportunity to engage with him directly on this issue, but it's an issue, obviously, that I feel strongly about, primarily because I've seen what can happen, as has the rest of us across the country when we don't clearly identify who our enemy is and, really, the danger that that poses, not only in the fact that our enemy will increase in their strength and in the threat that they pose to us and to others around the world, but also what happens when the leaders in our country, both in Congress as well as in the White House, we see back with the Bush administration and now with this administration, that they end up getting us into conflicts and waging war against people who have not waged war against us.

We saw just the other day the unfortunate incident of the beheading of these 21 Egyptian Coptic -- Coptic Christians in Libya. And it is an opportune moment for us to look back at Libya and look and see what happened and why are we -- we is our country in this position today, that if our leaders at that time had not made that decision to go and overthrow and conduct a regime change with Gadhafi, who was actually working with us to fight against al Qaeda, then we would not be in this position where ISIS continues to grow and gain territory within Libya.

BLITZER: You know, what's stunning to me, Congresswoman, as someone who has covered Washington for a long time, is that no one from the White House, no congressional liaison, no National Security Council official, forget about the president or vice president, but no on -- you're a fellow Democrat. You're an Iraq War veteran, member of the House Armed Services Committee. No one has gotten in touch with you and said, "You know what? Let's have lunch. Let's talk about this. Maybe there is some common ground. We can discuss this."

It's stunning to me that no one has bothered to pick up a phone and even discuss these issues with you. Isn't that surprising to you?

GABBARD: Yes, I mean, I don't know what to think about the operation in the White House or why or why not. My focus has really been on trying to convey the importance of this, trying to have this conversation with people, both here in Hawaii in my community and in other parts of the country, with my colleagues in Congress so that we understand the importance of it. That this is not just about whether someone uses one word or another word. There are very real consequences to this misidentification of who our enemy is, because it's directly linked to the strategy that must be put in place in order to defeat them and to alleviate this threat from - to the safety of the American people.

BLITZER: Congresswoman, because I'm stunned by the fact that no one from the White House has contacted you, I want you to hold on for a moment.

Jay Carney, the former White House press secretary, is with us. He's now a CNN senior political commentator.

Jay, what's going on over at the White House? Why wouldn't someone pick up the phone, talk to this -- she represents a huge military district in Hawaii. A lot of veterans live in Hawaii, as you know. She's got strong views. She's -- she's a fellow Democrat. What's going on over there at the White House?

JAY CARNEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, Wolf, I have to say I'm surprised, and I'm disappointed. I think that this is a perfect opportunity for the kind of conversation that you talk about to take place.

And if I -- if I were that representative from the White House, if I were still there and working in the appropriate shop, I think the conversation I'd want to have with Congresswoman Gabbard is to explain to her, I think, the president's view, which is it's clear from his speech and from his views that he believes that the attempt to radicalize Muslims is key to the problem here, and that that's creating the enemy.

And he talked very clearly about the perversion of Islam. He didn't shy away from using that word.

But I think his view is that, in order to succeed in that ideological fight, as well as the military fight, we need allies; and we need allies in the Muslim community. And we don't want to alienate Muslims who might want to help us, both here in the United States, in western Europe, and in the Middle East and other Muslim parts of the world.

And I think that's the reason for that separation. It is more semantic than anything. I don't think he ignored in his speech today the fact that the root of this extremism is within the attempt to pervert Islam itself.

BLITZER: You want to weigh in, Jim?

SCIUTTO: Well, the counterpoint you'll hear from critics of this policy is that, yes, this is not a problem of the religion of Islam, but it is a problem within the religion of Islam. And you will often hear calls for louder voices, from within the Islamic faith, when you have crimes like we see, atrocities like we see calling out those groups in public, taking a risk. And frankly, it is a risk to do that but still calling out in public folks who abuse the name of Islam. And that's a fair criticism.

BLITZER: All right. I want to give Congresswoman Gabbard last word in this segment. Congresswoman, tell us where the United States of America needs to go right now to not only degrade but to defeat and destroy ISIS.

GABBARD: Well, just to respond to a couple of the comments that were made before, I think you can point out the difference between the tone, the words and the ideas that President Obama is putting forward, and contrast that with the comments and the words that we've heard and the direction that we've seen from moderate Muslim leaders like the king of Jordan, like the president of Egypt, people who are within the region who have directly called out this radical Islamic ideology that's fueling this terrorism, and directly addressing the fact that it must be defeated militarily, as well as ideologically.

And that's really the direction that we need to go in working with allies and partners like Jordan, like Egypt, like others who are within the region and around the world who recognize that we've got to address both of these issues, militarily and ideologically, head on.

Congresswoman Gabbard, thanks very much for joining us.

GABBARD: Thank you very much, Wolf. Aloha.

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