CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: Middle East Policy and Defense Strategy

Interview

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BLITZER: Yes, clearly what the president said, America's war in Iraq will be over by end of 2011, clearly, that has not occurred. Jim Sciutto, thanks very much.

Joining us now, Republican Congressman Ryan Zinke of Montana. He's an Iraq War veteran. He's a former Navy SEAL commander. He's a member of the SEAL Team Six as well. He serves now on the House Armed Services Committee.

Congressman, thanks very much for coming in.

REP. RYAN ZINKE (R), MONTANA: Great to be here.

BLITZER: You served in Iraq. You served in Fallujah, Ramadi. You know the territory well. Is this, first of all, from your perspective mission creep?

ZINKE: Well, it is a freefall. And it won't make a difference putting more troops in unless we change the policy.

Air operations alone is not effective. It will not be effective. We don't have the intelligence on the ground. We are using Facebook in some type cases to target. And what's the objective? What are we going to do in Syria? And how is it we are going to look at the growing influence of Iran?

Before we put troops on the ground, more troops on the ground, we need to change our policy. This president has to recognize the path we are on has failed. What are we going to do different? Because putting more troops alone in won't make a difference unless we change our policy.

BLITZER: The administration says the policy is, the mission is to degrade and ultimately destroy ISIS. Do you see that happening?

ZINKE: No, no, you could another 1,000 troops in. The problem with putting light troops in is that what if one of our sailors, soldiers, airmen, Marines get captured? If you don't put sufficient force in where they can't defend themselves, then you're put in position where they are going to be burned alive in a cave.

You also need medevac. If one of our guys gets hurt, you have got to get them out within an hour. You also need logistics. So, if you going to degrade and defeat ISIS, that package, that force package has to be sufficient to defend itself and get the job done.

The problem is, is, if you take ISIS territory, and the only result is you are going to cede it to an Iranian-influenced Shia militia, what's the point? Our policy has to change. We have to look at what we are going to do with Syria. Are we going to accept a regime change? Are we're going to move to a regime change? And what are we going to do about an ever-increasing Iranian influence?

BLITZER: Because they announced today, the Pentagon, the White House, another 450 U.S. troops will go out to Iraq, but they're not going to Baghdad. They're going to the front lines.

And what worries me is a force protection is -- as you call it in the military, force protection will largely be dependent on the Iraqi military. Can you depend on the Iraqi military to protect those 450 U.S. advisers who are going out there?

ZINKE: You know, I think the troops deserve the best equipment on the battlefield, the best training, and American armor if they get in trouble. You look at Benghazi, what happened, is we didn't have a quick reaction force of our weight to go in and help these guys. And the same situation is at risk here. Again, if we are going to degrade and defeat ISIS, I think, at the core of it, we have to change our tactics on the ground.

BLITZER: What would you change, Congressman? What would you -- what do you want to see happen? And you served there. You speak with authority.

ZINKE: Well, I think you look at the Kurds. I think we need to arm the Kurds directly, support the Kurds.

BLITZER: And forget about the Baghdad government?

ZINKE: Well, for now, because the question is, what about Iran?

BLITZER: All right, but the Kurds are not going to go into Ramadi in the Anbar province. They're going to protect their territory. They're not going to go protect Sunni territory or Shia territory.

ZINKE: No, and nor are they going to go into Mosul because of the refugee problem. So, it's really a multiple problem,solution.

BLITZER: What do you do to liberate Ramadi from ISIS?

ZINKE: I think you look at the Sunni tribes we fought with. And I fought with a lot of them. They're still willing to fight. But they're not going to fight unless we show resolve.

BLITZER: And so should the U.S. be arming them directly?

ZINKE: I think so.

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BLITZER: Without the central government of Baghdad? Because that will infuriate the prime minister, Haider al-Abadi, and his team over there, largely Shiite-led team.

ZINKE: Well, to this point, they have given no support to the Sunnis at all. That's part of the problem. The Sunnis no longer recognize the centralized government as a legitimate power.

The Shia militia that is moving around is calling out war crimes that are anti-Sunni. So, the Sunnis are in a tough spot. Do they move to an ISIS, which is a radical Islamic terrorist organization? Or do they defend themselves? Or do they give up? So, I think we do look at the tribal relationships that we had.

[18:10:02]

Arm the Sunnis. Help them with logistics. But at the core of it, we have to change our tactics on the ground. Figure out what we are going to do with Sunni. And how are we going to remove Iranian influence to the extent it is in the territory of Iraq? BLITZER: You spent 23 years, correct me if I'm wrong, as a Navy SEAL,

right?

ZINKE: I did.

BLITZER: All right, so when you're a Navy SEAL, you salute, you obey, you go follow the mission, you give -- they give you an order, you do it.

You are a United States Congressman right now. Do you trust the guys who are making these decisions, the men and women at the Pentagon, the White House, the intelligence community? Do they know what they're doing?

ZINKE: I trust our military advisers.

What I don't trust is this administration, when his core group around -- his advisers. I think they're giving him bad advice. And I don't think it is the military in this case. I think -- I have spoken to the senior military officers. They understand. Former military officers, General Abizaid, General Conway all say the same thing. Air operations alone will not be effective. We knew this coming in.

We have seen it where we have emboldened Iraq -- the ISIS forces. And now we have fewer options, but the options today still are, I think, arm the Kurds, find the Sunni Shia that will fight. Make sure they have the logistics, and what they need to fight. And figure out a policy about what we are going to do about the central problem is Iran.

BLITZER: Congressman, I want you to stand by. We have much more to talk about, including this, why the U.S. Congress, the Senate and the House, they have not approved any legislation authorizing military force against ISIS in Iraq, or Syria, for that matter.

Much more with Congressman Ryan Zinke when we come back.

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[18:16:20]

BLITZER: We're back with Congressman Ryan Zinke of Montana. He's member of the House Armed Services Committee. He's a former Navy SEAL commander. He served in Iraq.

And we're talking about the president's decision to send up to another 450 U.S. troops to Iraq to train and advise local forces on the front lines in the battle against ISIS.

What do you make of the fact, Congressman, there is still no congressional authorization that has been passed in the Senate or the House authorizing the president to use military force in this new war against ISIS?

ZINKE: Well, the present authorization is sufficient to do anything the president... BLITZER: The authorization after what, after 9/11?

ZINKE: That he's operating right under now.

BLITZER: So, you think that's enough?

ZINKE: It is.

BLITZER: Because there are a lot of your colleagues in the House and the Senate who don't think that is enough, that that was to fight al Qaeda. This is not al Qaeda.

ZINKE: Well, the consensus is, it is enough.

What the president asked -- and I was in a room when the White House counsel came over -- is he asked for that -- for his ability to be restricted, because, in his mind, you can fight it from over the horizon. So, he actually asked Congress to further restrict his ability to fight.

And, as a former Navy commander, is that I think we deserve to make sure our troops that we put in harm's way have a full array of rules of engagement. And what you have don't want to do is tie one hand behind their back or restrict their ability to fight. I think we deserve and our troops to have everything made available to them so they can fight and win decisively on the field of battle.

BLITZER: So, when you hear like senators like Tim Kaine of Virginia, Jeff Flake of Arizona, a Democrat, Republican, say, we need legislation authorizing the use of military force, you say that authorization is already there, new legislation is not necessary?

ZINKE: That's my belief. The president has all the powers. He needs to fight and win this war.

BLITZER: Let's talk about the Navy SEALs for a moment, because in recent days there was this very long, thousand-of-words article in "The New York Times." You were quoted in that article. I am sure you read it.

One of the quotes in the article about the Navy SEALs was this. And it was critical -- quote -- "America's new way of war in which conflict is distinguished not by battlefield wins and losses, but by the relentless killing of suspected militants, spurring recurring concerns about excessive killing and civilian deaths."

Give me your reaction to that?

ZINKE: SEAL Team Six and our Tier 1 forces are highly scrutinized.

These guys are professional. What they're trained to do is identify a threat and nonthreat. And it is a risky business. They're not angels. They're professionals. And you know what? We owe them our gratitude and thanks.

Not everyone can do this job. Not everyone is capable of doing this job. They put themselves in harm's way repeatedly. And what America needs to do is thank. Thank you, SEAL Team Six. Thank you, Delta, for everything you do.

BLITZER: But you think in recent years there's been, in the word of this "New York Times" story, excessive killing and civilian deaths?

ZINKE: I don't.

They are highly scrutinized. They have multiple chain of command. When I conducted an operation in Bosnia, we were being armchair- quarterbacked all the way from Washington, D.C., and these missions that are high-value target, they're being watched by everybody, multiple layers.

And they don't have a lot of leeway, other than threat/nonthreat, do what you need to do to protect your buddy and carry out the mission successfully. I'm convinced that these are the best in the world. And we need to support them.

BLITZER: Ryan Zinke, thanks very much for joining us.

ZINKE: Thank you.

BLITZER: Thanks, Congressman.

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