CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: Cybersecurity and Middle East Strategy

Interview

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BLITZER: Pamela Brown in Boston, thanks very much.

Let's talk more about the ISIS threat, as well as the massive cyber-attack on the United States.

Joining us now, Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard. She's an Iraq War veteran, a member of the House Armed Services Committee, as well as the House Foreign Affairs Committee. She is joining us from Hawaii.

[18:10:01]

Congresswoman, thanks very much for joining us.

I want to talk about what's going on in Iraq, the war against ISIS in a moment.

But let me ask first you about that massive cyber-attack on the federal government. Four million current and former employees may have had some of the most sensitive personal information stolen by these hackers. Do you suspect anyone on your staff who may have previously served in the executive branch may have had his or her information stolen?

REP. TULSI GABBARD (D), HAWAII: Yes, aloha, Wolf. Thanks for having me on to talk about this very important issue.

I have been in touch with my staff. And at this point, we have not gotten word that any of them have been a part of the millions whose private information was hacked. But I think we really need to look here at the larger issue of the serious vulnerabilities that we have within our cyber-security systems here in the United States. And we also need to recognize where else these threats are coming

from. We have seen recent attacks coming from Russia, from North Korea from Iran, and even reports recently that ISIS themselves are creating their own team of hacking jihadists.

So it's important that the leaders in our country make the necessary investments and really understanding the serious threat we're facing in this relatively newish form of warfare that we have got to deal with now, and going into the future.

BLITZER: How should the U.S. respond to these cyber-attacks?

GABBARD: Well, again, I think this goes into the necessity of, first of all, strengthening our systems.

This has pointed out in the last few times that the United States government as well as those in the private sector have been hacked, and on the government side, it's shown that the resources have not been dedicated towards strengthening our systems to make it so that we are protected, so that the American people are protected from these kinds of attacks.

Secondly, the issue here really that could be devastating to our country is if our core infrastructure was hacked, if you look at our energy grids, if you look at our nuclear energy facilities, you look at some of these core infrastructure elements within our communities all across the country, making sure that those are protected again against these very talented hackers that are being employed by or working for different entities all across the country.

BLITZER: Hold on for one second, Congresswoman. We have got some breaking news.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BLITZER: These are live pictures we're getting from Illinois right now. This looks like an Amtrak train headed from San Antonio to Chicago collided with a truck near Wilmington, Illinois, just a little while ago, this according to officials.

Amtrak train number 22 stopped -- is stopped, obviously, waiting for police to investigate, this according to Amtrak officials. We're told, at least so far, no injuries have been reported, but another disturbing development there, a train colliding with a truck near Wilmington, Illinois. That's just south and west of Chicago. These are live pictures coming in from our affiliates. We will see what's going on.

See passengers obviously getting off right there.

Let's take a quick break. We will get back to Tulsi Gabbard, much more on the war against ISIS in Iraq and elsewhere, when we come back.

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[18:18:11]

BLITZER: Following the breaking news, not far from Chicago, an Amtrak train from San Antonio to Chicago, Amtrak train number 22, smashed, collided with a truck near Wilmington, Illinois. That's just to the south and west of Chicago.

You can see the part of the truck in front of the train right there, the rest of the truck behind the train. It's -- no injuries have been reported, at least not yet. Passengers, though, were taken off the train. That train is stopped. These are live pictures coming in. We will update you as soon as we get some more information, another Amtrak train colliding with a truck near Wilmington, Illinois.

In the meantime, let's back to Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii. She's an Iraq War veteran, a member of the House Armed Services and Foreign Affairs Committee.

We're following all the breaking developments, Congresswoman, in the war against ISIS. We learned this week that the U.S. Air Force actually used some ISIS social media posts to identify bombing targets. What do you make of this? Is this the best the U.S. can do, to actually go to some ISIS social media posts, find out where some ISIS terrorists are, and launch an airstrike and try to kill them?

GABBARD: Well, first of all, you know, great job to the airmen who are doing this.

But there's something that really bothers me about this. Just as we saw this ISIS guy bragging by taking a selfie, we're seeing now on our side the U.S. is bragging about our own capability, therefore opening up a vulnerability and a weakness.

We have seen this with the situation that just occurred in Boston over the last few days, where, really, frankly, across the board, we're revealing far more information than is necessary, first of all, and revealing far more information that will ultimately point out what our, in the military, we call tactics, techniques and procedures are, therefore causing them to say, OK, look, this is how we have to change our own tactics, so that the United States is no longer able to exploit what they have -- what we have done.

[18:20:13]

So, this is a problem that needs to be fixed as we look at things that we need to continue to do going forward to defeat ISIS.

BLITZER: Earlier this week, the deputy secretary of state, Tony Blinken, said at a coalition conference against ISIS in Paris that 10,000 ISIS fighters have been killed by U.S. -- largely U.S. and coalition airstrikes.

Other officials say only two civilians, collateral damage, as it's called in the military, have been killed. How can they be so precise with those kinds of numbers?

GABBARD: Well, I don't know exactly what numbers or the sources of those numbers that they're referring to.

Of course, to minimize absolutely collateral damage to civilians is the best possible outcome when you're dealing with a war situation. I would like to point to that conference, though, that Tony was speaking at, and point to Syria's absence. There were no representatives from the Kurdish government or the Kurdish military present there.

This is the second conference that they have had where, frankly, they have completely omitted the people who are on the ground in Iraq, as well as in Syria, who have been most effective in fighting ISIS on the ground. They essentially have been our ground troops, and the fact that they were not invited the first time and now the second time just goes to show how flawed this policy is that continues here with the Obama administration, started with the Bush administration, of dumping all of the support into the central Iraqi Baghdad government, influenced by Iran and, frankly, leading what is essentially a failed state.

BLITZER: On that note, the last time we spoke, you suggested maybe it's time to start thinking about partitioning Iraq into what's often called a three-state solution, a Sunni state, a Shia state and a Kurdish state.

I have spoken with several members of the Obama administration since our conversation. They think that's not a good idea. They say they strongly oppose it. Why do you believe they're wrong?

GABBARD: Well, I think it's important, first of all, to operate in the world that actually exists, not the world that we wished existed. Again, if we look at the policies that have been continued from the Bush administration through the Obama administration, the reality is, Wolf, that they're just not working.

And this is why we have to look at what I believe is our only hope toward getting rid of ISIS' stronghold in Iraq, and that is some sort of a three-state solution. Exactly how it's configured would have to be determined. But empowering each of the three ethnic and sectarian groups in Iraq, so that they're responsible for their own governance and their own security will create a situation that will expel ISIS from Iraq and defeat them.

BLITZER: There was a very disturbing report in "The Wall Street Journal" today -- I don't know if you saw it, but I will paraphrase it -- basically suggesting that Iraqi government forces are not allowing young men trying to cross a bridge to flee Ramadi, which is now under ISIS control. They're letting elderly people, women, some children cross.

The refugees, they're trying to get away from ISIS, but young men, the Iraqi army not allowing to leave. They're saying, you have to go back there. You have go back to Ramadi and fight ISIS.

When you hear that kind of report, what's your reaction to that? And you're -- you served in Iraq. You're an Iraq War veteran. GABBARD: You know, Wolf, it's really disturbing and it points

again to a perfect example of how this Shia militia is oppressing the Sunni, the non-ISIS Sunni tribes, and why this continued idea that a so-called unified Iraq is possible really is not.

When you look at the Sunni, the non-ISIS-supporting Sunni tribes, many of them are not motivated to fight against ISIS, not motivated to fight against ISIS because of this oppression from -- coming from this central Shia government in Baghdad.

Just imagine how many of those Sunni families are turned away from escaping ISIS, driven back into the arms of ISIS, understanding that they have nowhere else to go, essentially. And, again, this is why it's critical, it's important for the United States government to relate to, to directly support and to empower these non-ISIS Sunni tribes to fight for their own territory, fight for their families, fight against ISIS, knowing that, if they do that, then they will have the ability to secure their own territory and to govern over this place that has been their home for so long.

BLITZER: Representative Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii, Representative, thanks very much for coming in.

GABBARD: Thanks, Wolf. Aloha.

BLITZER: Aloha to you too.

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