CNN "The Situation Room" - Transcript: Middle East Strategy and Domestic Terror Threats

Interview

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

BLITZER: Let's get some more on what's going on. Joining us, Democratic Congressman John Garamendi of California. He's a member of the House Armed Services Committee.

Congressman, a lot of stuff I want to go through with you. Let's talk about these ISIS sympathizers. Supposedly, they may -- this is, I repeat, may. They may have been behind at least 15 airline threats in recent days. This according to Reuters, warning that the flights were carrying some form of chemical weapons.

And as you know, on Monday, two U.S. F-15 fighter jets had to escort one of those planes coming into New York. It was supposedly threatened. What have you learned about this? What is -- what is going on here?

REP. JOHN GARAMENDI (D-CA), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Well, I think there's two things, one of which is very troublesome. That is that there may be a real legitimate threat on any one of those airplanes. The other is economic chaos, concern and fear that they're trying and successfully breeding all across the United States with these threats.

We've often seen these crying wolf episodes in the past. We're going to see more in the future. But then we have to be very, very careful that there really is a wolf or not out there. I don't mean you, Wolf Blitzer.

BLITZER: Yes.

GARAMENDI: But we're concerned about this. So we need to be aware of what is happening. But also we need to be wise. We've gone through all the way from 9/11 aware of potential threats. We used to have the red, orange levels, yellow levels of concern. I think all of us need to be watching carefully and aware. And yes, we're going to see these kinds of threats coming down in the future.

BLITZER: Because the question is, and it's a significant one, are these threats against these airliners coming in mostly from overseas flights coming in -- is it just simply a hoax or whatever? Somebody thinks it's fun to get everybody crazy, if you will, and get these F- 15s scrambling as these planes come in or are they testing to see how it unfolds in case they're plotting something a lot more sinister? Do you have a sense of what's going on in this area right now?

GARAMENDI: Well, I would suppose it might be both. Certainly by putting in a false threat, that creates concern. That makes everybody scramble. It upsets the normal system. You may see again the scrambling of jet fighter planes to escort airplanes in. All of those things upset the normal rhythm of economic and social life. And certainly that is and has been one of the techniques used by terrorists and others who just want to cause trouble.

But it could also be a possibility of testing and watching for the response and trying to find the weak spot that might exist. And so from our point of view, we need to be very much aware of what we are facing on the military, on the police side and on the various intelligence agencies.

BLITZER: And if it is a hoax, somebody thinking they're having some fun, they should be fully aware this is a crime. They could wind up spending years in jail if they do this.

GARAMENDI: Absolutely.

BLITZER: So this is not simply having some fun at the expense of the United States, the military, whatever. This is a serious potential crime. You're going to go to jail for a long time if you're caught doing this. Congressman, there's a Georgia man who pleaded guilty today for

providing support to ISIS. He was arrested at the Atlanta airport after he purchased a ticket to fly to Turkey. How will the FBI change the targeting of these individuals based on these most recent developments? Because it seems almost every other day or so, somebody is being picked up in the United States for trying to hook up with ISIS.

GARAMENDI: Actually, that's a very good thing, that we're finding them, we're picking them up. There may be some that slip through.

But what we do know is that they are in communication. We discussed some time ago the way in which it often happens with a Twitter account. That is perfectly legitimate for the police agencies, FBI, NSA and others to monitor those. Those are open source. Gather up the names of the accounts and the individuals and then proceed to watch them, quite possibly with an appropriate court order.

If that's the case, we know where they are. And that's a good thing to know where they are if you know who they are. And if they're getting on an airplane, well, then you just escort them off to the local prison.

BLITZER: Congressman, I want you to stand by. We have much more to talk about including what's going on in Iraq right now. This war against ISIS and some now calling for what they call a three-state solution in Iraq. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:15:51] BLITZER: We're following the breaking news in the war against ISIS. The Pentagon reporting ISIS fighters are digging in. They're planting booby traps around the key Iraqi city of Ramadi, and only ISIS fighters they say are in the city, despite Iraqi government claims a counteroffensive is under way.

We're back with Democratic Congressman John Garamendi of California. He's a member of the House Armed Services Committee.

Congressman, the White House communications director, Jen Psaki, she said on CNN's NEW DAY this morning that the United States needs to, in her words, and I'm quoting her now, "adapt our strategy in the fight against ISIS."

Here's the question: Why has it taken so long for the administration to admit that the current strategy is clearly not working, that they need to come up with something better?

GARAMENDI: Well, I think we need to go back to what that strategy recently was. It was one of turning the Iraqi government around so that we have a new government and one that was much broader in context, that it wasn't just based on the Shias. That has happened, but it is not yet complete.

And we also had to rebuild the Iraqi army, which was in disarray. All of that's going to take -- has taken and will take some additional time.

So the real problem that we're going to have to deal with is what is adaptation? Does adaptation mean that we have to send boots on the ground? I think not. And at some point, the U.S. Congress is going to have to carry out its constitutional responsibility of coming to grips with a declaration of war or what we now call an authorization to use military force. We have not done that.

Most have just sat back and thrown verbal stones at the situation where we really are going to have to vote yes or no, what are we actually going to do in Iraq and Syria?

BLITZER: I spent the time earlier today with Democratic Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii. I assume you know her. She served a tour of duty in Iraq before she went to the United States Congress.

She told me very specifically that the United States should stop, in her words, propping up that central government, Shia-led government in Baghdad. Listen to what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TULSI GABBARD (D), HAWAII: We need to make sure that we stop continuing this failed policy of supporting and propping up this central government in Baghdad and this fantasy, really, of a one unified country of Iraq; and support this three-state solution of empowering the Sunni tribes, empowering the Kurds and the Shias, each of them having three autonomous territories rather than continuing what we've seen really has failed for so long.

By doing this, we can get rid of the oxygen that has allowed ISIS to maintain its stronghold here within this area of Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right. What do you think, Congressman? You agree with her?

GARAMENDI: Well, I don't really agree with her. It has been discussed. It continues to be discussed. Actually, the lines, the borders were drawn shortly after World War I by the Europeans. And in many respects, the United States has become the executor of those agreements that were made nearly a century ago. So there is a realignment taking place.

But boy, I'll tell you, you start changing those borders, and you've got Turkey. You've got other countries that are going to look at that and go, "I don't know if that's a good idea."

So we've got to move very, very cautiously before we head down any path that way. Will it become a reality? Boy, you take a look what's going to come of Baghdad? Is Baghdad then going to become a suburb of Iran? They are already close.

So we've got to think through this thing. And right now, the policy that's been established is one that is best suited for the current situation. We are going to have to be willing to adapt and change as things move along.

One thing that has not taken place fully in that original strategy was to bring in the surrounding countries that are directly threatened by ISIL: for example, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and the other Gulf states. they've stood on the sidelines. They did a little bit of military aircraft bombing early on. They may be doing a little bit now. But they certainly have not put their boots on the ground.

[17:20:10] BLITZER: Should the U.S. continue to arm the Iraqi military? Because we know it's performed dismally both in Mosul a year ago, in Ramadi much more recently, even though they vastly outnumber the ISIS terrorists in Ramadi, for example, these Iraqi military personnel simply drop their weapons, mostly U.S. weapons, and ran away. Is it a good idea to continue supplying weapons to the Iraqi military?

We have no choice but to do that, consider what happens if we don't. You're going to have ISIS sitting in downtown Baghdad. So that is a real non-starter, at least from my point of view.

So, yes, we must continue to arm them and train them. My understanding is that the Iraqi troops that left their weapons behind and ran away from Ramadi were not those troops trained by the American government. That those American-trained troops were not yet engaged. So I think we have no choice but to arm the Iraqi government. Some of those arms as Ms. Gabbard said should be going to the Sunni fighters that want to fight on the sides of a united Iraq.

And obviously some of that is also going to the Peshmerga, the Kurds. That is presently flowing through the central government, to give those weapons directly would basically put the United States at odds with the central government and quite possibly accelerate a complete breakdown of any centralized government in that area.

BLITZER: It's a pretty awful situation. And I've got to wrap it up. But I'll remind you what the defense secretary of the United States, Ash Carter told our Barbara Starr the other day, the Iraqi military including U.S.-trained members of the Iraqi military in Ramadi, in his words, they showed no will to fight even though they vastly outnumbered those ISIS terrorists. We're going to have a lot more to talk about, Congressman, always appreciate you joining us. Thanks very much.

GARAMENDI: Anytime.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

Source