NBC News "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Iran Nuclear Deal
Interview
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
SEN. RAND PAUL:
I think there are a lot of threats around the world. And everybody talks about Iran. I think Iran is a significant threat. I think the countries that already have nuclear weapons are somewhat of a threat also. North Korea's a loose cannon with nuclear weapons.
I think Pakistan, there's always a threat of instability over there. Also having nuclear weapons. So I think there's a number of threats. I think, you know, in the last year or so, Russia has become more problem than problem solver. You know, there was hope maybe a year or so ago that when Russia helped to broker getting rid of the chemical weapons in Syria, there was hope among some of us that they were going to, you know, want to participate in making the world a better place. But quickly dashed after, you know, the invasion of Crimea and into Ukraine.
CHUCK TODD:
There's a quote you gave that was in the New Yorker. You said it in July of last year, but it was in the October New Yorker. You said this: "When you have so many confusions, how can you ask an American GI to go fight and lose his life for something where we'd be fighting with the Iranians and the Syrians against I.S.I.S. but in the neighboring country we would be fighting with many people who hate Israel, hate the United States, hate Christianity? Makes absolutely no sense." I take that quote to think that you think even right now the U.S.'s presence in the Middle East is too big.
SEN. RAND PAUL:
Well, I don't think I'd put it that way. I would say that the quote is to mean that the Middle East is a very confusing place. And before we leap, before we put GIs into something where they could lose their lives or where we're putting American GI lives at risk, that we have to think before we act.
And if I can think of one thing that is true in that mess that I think is incontrovertible and really hard for anybody to object to is that every time we've toppled a strong man, we've gotten chaos and we've gotten the rise of radical Islam. And that includes wars that were promoted by Republicans as well as wars promoted by Democrats. I think Hillary's war in Libya is an example. But I also think the toppling of Hussein is another example of when a strong man went, chaos ensued.
CHUCK TODD:
Do you think we're spending too much time debating Iran and not enough time debating the I.S.I.S. resolution that Congress still hasn't voted on?
SEN. RAND PAUL:
I think they're both important. And I think they both need to involve Congress. Because, you know, our founding fathers were very, very specific that Congress had a role in foreign policy, a big role. In fact, they gave the ultimate role, you know, in declaring war to Congress. And that was intentional, I mean, to make it difficult and to make it that we only went to war when we had consensus.
CHUCK TODD:
But there's an intensity on Iran. "Oh my God. We gotta debate every facet of the deal." And none of that on I.S.I.S.
SEN. RAND PAUL:
Yeah, and I think that's disappointing. And so, you know, before Christmas, I brought it up in the Foreign Relations. And I actually introduced a declaration of war against I.S.I.S. And I did try to attach it to a water bill, which annoyed some people. And people were like, "Why are you attaching a war resolution to a water bill?"
And it's like, "That's all they'll let me attach it to." But I forced them to debate. And I think that's one of the things to me that has been most exciting about being in the Senate, is I could be at home saying, "Congress should declare war," and, "Why won't Congress get involved?"
But now, I'm actually there. And I can say, "You know what? I'll make them vote on this. And they will have to discuss war." And they did. We had a great discussion. It didn't come to a resolution, but I'm still pushing to say, "Look, you should not be at war." And in fact, I've said the president, if he wanted to be a great leader last August should have come before a joint session of Congress and laid out the plan.
And then he should have asked for permission. He would have gone down in history as a uniter and a great leader if he had done that. And instead, we kind of Mickey Mouse around. And no one's made a decision. "Are we at war? Or are we not at war?"
CHUCK TODD:
The Iran deal, I know there's confusion. You got the Iranians saying one thing about it. You got the Americans saying one thing about it. Assuming the deal is what John Kerry and President Obama are saying, is that a deal you would nullify on day one if you took office?
SEN. RAND PAUL:
I think that's a real problem, is assuming what it actually means. And, you know, I've talked to the administration about this. And I've told them from the very beginning one of my biggest concerns is the day that the Obama administration came out with their fact sheet on what the agreement would mean, the foreign minister of Iran comes out tweeting in English and says, "Well, no, it means exactly the opposite of what the Americans mean." And so you have to question the sincerity of the Iranians. And it also goes to credibility on this agreement. Is this really going to be the agreement that we can wholeheartedly get behind--
CHUCK TODD:
But this--
SEN. RAND PAUL:
--if Iran is not saying what--
CHUCK TODD:
But going--
SEN. RAND PAUL:
--it means.
CHUCK TODD:
But going back to the description, the agreement as the United States has described it, good enough agreement for you?
SEN. RAND PAUL:
I think that there are good things in it. Surprise I'm not one of the Republicans who will say, "Oh, because the president's a Democrat, I'm never going say he can do anything good." I believe in negotiations. I want to have negotiation. But I also realize that negotiations have to be from a position of strength.
Many conservatives who are hopping mad and all they want to do is criticize the president, they don't remember Ronald Reagan talked with the Russians. We negotiated with the Russians for decades. Didn't mean we trusted them. Reagan said, "Trust but verify." I'm still in the same camp.
So while I want a deal, I don't want a bad deal. All I've seen is the fact sheet so far. And I will tell you it greatly troubles me that the Iranians are saying it doesn't mean any of this. And meanwhile, the Ayatollah's still spouting off with, you know, aspersions toward the U.S. And Zarif saying it doesn't mean anything.
And so really the Iranians are destroying the ability for any Americans to get behind it because of their remarks. So if they could come out and say, you know, "Yes, we agree with the administration on what it means," there might be a chance for people to look at the agreement objectively.
CHUCK TODD:
You said something right after the 2012 election about your dad. You said, "Maybe, just maybe the Ron Paul revolution is the last best hope for saving the GOP from oblivion." If you run a good campaign and you're not the Republican nominee, GOP headed for oblivion?
SEN. RAND PAUL:
Sometimes we have flowering rhetoric that we use. And sometimes--
CHUCK TODD:
You think you overdid it there?
SEN. RAND PAUL:
Probably not me, of course. Other politicians probably have been over the top, but never me. No, I think we say a lot of things. And I was very sincere that, you know, I was a great fan of my dad. I think he's one of the few honest and genuine people in politics. So I do mean that in my support. But I think also when we say, "It's our guy or oblivion," we may sometimes be using a little rhetorical flourish.
CHUCK TODD:
Where do you disagree with your dad? Give me three areas--
SEN. RAND PAUL:
You go first. You go first. Where do you disagree with your dad? And then I'll go to mine. No, I mean--
CHUCK TODD:
No, I--
SEN. RAND PAUL:
Here's the thing--
CHUCK TODD:
Well, but you guys are both elected officials.
SEN. RAND PAUL:
Yeah, I know. Here's the--
CHUCK TODD:
It isn't--
SEN. RAND PAUL:
Yeah, I know.
CHUCK TODD:
And your campaign, been a lot of Ron Paul fans that showed up today and showed up--
SEN. RAND PAUL:
I would say the best way to describe it has to be sort of in general terms unless we've got a few hours, you know--
CHUCK TODD:
Fair enough.
SEN. RAND PAUL:
And the thing is that I would say that we both believe in the original intent of the Constitution. We both believe that government should spend only that comes in. We both believe in a strong national defense. And we both believe that maybe in the spectrum of foreign policy that maybe we've intervened too much.
Now, there's degrees of how much you intervene around the world. And he might be a little bit more towards the side of not ever intervening. And I'm towards the side of deciding how we intervene through Congress and doing it when there is a vital American interest involved. And so I think there are times you intervene. I think I.S.I.S. is one of those.
CHUCK TODD:
This week, there's been a lot of attention to some of the interviews you've had. One or two have been contentious. One with my colleague Savannah Guthrie. This has been men and women, by the way. Do you think you have to grow a thicker skin?
SEN. RAND PAUL:
You know, it depends on when you get me. You know, if I've had my coffee and, you know, some of my-- no, I think--
CHUCK TODD:
Are you not a morning person?
SEN. RAND PAUL:
No. Actually, I am very much a morning person. I'm a surgeon. I love the morning. And actually, I'm better at 7:00 in the morning. So no complaints. It was early in the morning. But the thing is, I guess, that, you know, most of my profession has been as a doctor. And so if you ask me a question and it's about your eyes or it's about, you know, pain you've got here, I try to be very direct with the answer.
I don't like it and I sometimes have a hard time hiding that I don't like it when a lot of the question is built up into, "Well, you've changed your rhetoric. You've changed your opinion. And I guess this is your opinion at least for now." And that kind of tipped me off. That's snide. That's almost like, "This is your opinion. Oh, I guess at least for now--"
CHUCK TODD:
Well, welcome to the N.F.L.
SEN. RAND PAUL:
Oh, I know. But the thing is that then I push back. And I don't know for better or worse. People have come up to me of both stripes and said, "Thank goodness you stood up to the liberal media." And other people, maybe my wife, have said, "Count to ten and try to, you know, let them spit out their question, even if it is a biased question. Let the question come out." I don't know. I think we could all be better. I think some interviewers could be better sometimes. And I think also politicians could be more tolerant of interviewers at times--
CHUCK TODD:
Hillary Clinton's getting into this race. You have been comfortable bringing up a lot of her past, a lot of Bill Clinton's past and saying that it should be thought about and debated. You're hesitant about your past. You don't like your associations with your father being a part of your campaign.
SEN. RAND PAUL:
Right.
CHUCK TODD:
Isn't that a little hypocritical?
SEN. RAND PAUL:
I think the thing is about the Clintons is that there's a certain sense that they think they're above the law. And I think there's also this grand hypocrisy for the Clintons in the sense that we've got this whole thing, this war on women thing that they like to talk about.
And yet Hillary Clinton has taken money from countries that rape victims are publicly lashed. In Saudi Arabia, a woman was gang raped by seven men. She was publicly lashed 90 times. And then she was convicted of being in the car with an unmarried man. We should be boycotting, voluntarily boycotting a country, not buying stuff from a country that does that to women--
CHUCK TODD:
So you want a boycott. So if you're president, "Saudi Arabia, you're no longer an ally."
SEN. RAND PAUL:
Well, no--
CHUCK TODD:
"You're done."
SEN. RAND PAUL:
I think that's a little different than what I'm saying. You remember with South Africa? You know, there was much of it that was a voluntary boycott saying, "You know what? Personally, you know, I'm going to try to tell my university not to invest in this country because of what they do to women."
And, see, I think I would expect Hillary Clinton if she believes in women's rights, she should be calling for a boycott of Saudi Arabia. Instead, she's accepting tens of millions of dollars. And I think it looks unseemly. And there's going to be some explaining she's going to have to come up with.
CHUCK TODD:
All right, senator. I got to leave it there. But are you really running for both offices at the same time?
SEN. RAND PAUL:
Yes.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah? The anti-Washington candidate wants to be in Washington?
SEN. RAND PAUL:
Well, I think there's got to be a voice for people. You know, people who believe that government really has gone way too far. And I think you'll see 1,000 people out here that want me to still be that voice.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. Senator, stay safe--
SEN. RAND PAUL:
Thank you--
CHUCK TODD:
-on the trail, buddy.
SEN. RAND PAUL:
All right. Thanks.
BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT
Source