MSNBC "Rachel Maddow Show"- Transcript: War Against ISIL

Interview

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Senator Sanders, thank you so much for being here.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), VERMONT: My pleasure.

MADDOW: I posit that Hillary Clinton has been slightly more liberal
in what she`s said she wanted to do with her campaign than what I expected.
Do you think that`s true?

SANDERS: Well, it`s hard to judge. She`s only been out there for a
few days.

But the issue to my mind is in this strange moment in American
history, when our middle class is disappearing, when we have so many people
living in poverty, when we have to deal with climate change, when we have
to deal with the horrendous level of income and wealth inequality, how do
we address these issues in a way that takes on the billionaire class?

There`s one issue for me, Rachel, and that is do we as a people, not
Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, Rachel Maddow, are we prepared to take on
the billionaire class now, where 99 percent of all new income is going to
the top 1 percent? Where they have significant control over the media,
where they by and large determine the legislation that goes on in Congress,
and as a result of Citizens United are prepared to buy the United States
Congress.

There`s million issues out there, but the main issue is, will we
retain a middle class? Will we retain our democratic foundation? Or, in
fact, and I`m not over exaggerating, will we move to an oligarchic society
where this whole nation is going to run by a handful of billionaire
families, Koch brothers and others?

MADDOW: Do you see your mission to make, essentially the Democratic
Party, take that on as the reason they exist and the way they are different
from the Republican Party?

SANDERS: My mission is that I have four kids and seven grandchildren
and I want them to live in a great country -- and present trends that is
not the case. The scientific community tells us if we don`t deal with
climate change, this planet is going to warm up substantially. What kind
of planet are we going to leave to our kids?

So, we have enormous problems. But at the end of the day, if you want
to raise the minimum wage, if you want to create millions of jobs, if you
want to end the disgrace of America being the only major country without a
national health care program, you know what you have to do? You have to
take on the billionaire class. You have to break up the Wall Street banks.
You need real tax reform.

I just introduced legislation the other day. We`re losing $110
billion a year because corporation stash their money in the Cayman Islands
and in Bermuda. That`s what we have to do. You have to raise the minimum
wage to a living wage. To do all of those things, we need a mass movement
in this country, the likes of which we have never seen before.

The only way we beat the billionaire class, is when millions of people
organize and say, enough is enough, we want to go to college without going
bankrupt. We`re entitled to health care as a right. We don`t want our
jobs to go to China. Wall Street can`t run this country, et cetera, et
cetera.

And the question as a nation that we have to ask ourselves, do we have
the courage to do that?

MADDOW: Do you think a potential presidential run -- you running for
president -- could be the sort of thing that would catalyze that kind of
movement? Is that part of why you`re considering it?

SANDERS: Yes. I mean, it`s one of the things that I`m looking at.
And I don`t know the answer to your question.

We are looking -- I mean, it`s easy for me to give a speech. And we
have huge turnovers all over the country.

You tell me, do you think the American people are prepared to stand up
to the billionaire class? People are so demoralized they`ve given up in
the political process. Eighty percent of young people didn`t vote in the
last election.

Can we bring people together and say, sorry, the billionaires can`t
control the United States Congress? We need fundamental changes in this
country. I don`t know the answer to that, but I`m exploring that.

And the other issue that you touched on, it`s frankly Hillary and the
Republicans. You know how much money they`re going to raise in the
campaign? They`re going to raise probably over a billion dollars.

MADDOW: Each? On each side.

SANDERS: Each.

MADDOW: Yes.

SANDERS: So, then the question comes, if a candidate is out there to
represent working families, and relies on small contributions, can you win
an election when you`re so greatly outspent or is that over? Will the only
candidates we have, be those who have huge super PACs and billionaire
backers?

If that`s the case -- that`s a pretty sad state of affairs.

MADDOW: How will you make this decision? It sounds like you are, it
sounds like -- I`ve talked to you about this a few different times. It
sounds to me like you were getting closer to making this decision.

SANDERS: I am getting closer.

MADDOW: How will you make the decision, and when?

SANDERS: It`s going to end up having to be a gut reaction, and that
is getting a sense of whether or not there really is the support for people
to roll up their sleeves by the millions, frankly and say, we need a
political revolution in this country. And I mean those words advisedly.

So, I have to make that decision shortly, and I will. And the other
factor, of course, is, when I don`t get super PAC money, how do we -- and
we average $45 a contribution, you need a lot of $45 to raise a few hundred
million dollars, can we raise that and I have to ascertain that.

MADDOW: Senator Bernie Sanders, independent of Vermont, it`s great to
see you, sir. Thank you.

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