MSNBC- "The Ed Show"- Transcript: North American Free Trade Agreement

Interview

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Joining me tonight, Leo Gerard, International President of United Steel
Workers, also with us tonight, Congressman Emanuel Cleaver of Missouri.
Gentlemen, good to have you with us.

LEO GERARD, PRESIDENT, UNITED STEEL WOKERS OF AMERICA: It`s good to be
with you.

SCHULTZ: Mr. Gerard, you first. Can you stop trade promotion authority?
Where is the momentum right now?

GERARD: I think we can stop trade promotion authority. Let me just say,
Ed, when commented about the AFL-CIO. I`ve been on the executive council
for a long time and through a lot of trade fights. This is the first time
that every single member of every single union at the AFL-CIO promised a
full-out (ph) battle to stop fast-tracking on institutional level from the
steel workers, where the canaries and the cage.

We looked at how jobs were last in steel and paper and tire and rubber and
glass, and we`re able to show how that has happened and under these trade
deals and also the fact that I`ve mentioned on your show before.

In order for us to win a trade case, we first have to prove we lost jobs.
So the system has broken and everyone at the AFL-CIO, the staff, the
leaders of the unions, the people that support us from progressive
organization, we were unanimous that we got to stop fast-track.

SCHULTZ: Yeah. Congressman Cleaver, the breakdown of this is rather
interesting. You got 20 Republicans that are probably going to vote
against fast-track because of all the right reasons. It`s bad for jobs and
the economy. You got 40 Republicans that are probably going to vote
against it because they don`t want President Obama to have that authority.

So as I look at the numbers and the way this is breaking out, the
Congressional Black Caucus plays a big role in this. Not to mention that
they have it before but where is the Congressional Black Caucus on this
because I know you want to stand with the President but this is an issue of
jobs and insecurity, your thoughts.

REP. EMANUEL CLEAVER, (D) MISSOURI: Well, we have a number of members who
have traditionally supported these trade agreements. Congressman Greg
Meeks from New York for one, has been a very strong advocate. But after
you leave him and a couple of others, I think it`s going to be very
difficult for the members of the Congressional Black Caucus and for the
people in the Congress period to give fast-track authority to President
Obama or to any President. This is not about President Obama as it comes
to us.

Well, keep in mind and I think this is extremely important that fast-track
means that members of Congress cannot filibuster nor they can they amend
the agreement. It`s only up and down vote. So that begins to defame
members of Congress.

My voters would like for me to have some say and something that is as
important as this agreement. I think that the Congressional Black Caucus -
- and by the way we have never loved (ph) by the other side, so it`s not as
difficult as one might think for us. We don`t get people coming from the
business community. They essentially ignore us and so when that happens it
becomes infinitely easier for us to ignore them when the voters...

SCHULTZ: Congressman, is the President didn`t mislead on this? How would
you describe where he is and ways been touted on this?

CLEAVER: Well, I think every President seems to no matter what happens
when they go into the White House, it`s the water, I guess, or something
because President Clinton was also, as you know, big advocate for the NAFTA
and so I think the President like most Presidents are thinking about...

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

CLEAVER: ... the good of the country. This is going to expand our exports
but it is not good for the people in the country. And the majority of the
people in the country will not just seeing something happen. They will be
hurt by it.

SCHULTZ: Yeah. Congressman -- Mr. Gerard, the fact that they can`t
amendment -- amend it, is it that really one of the biggest sticklers in
all of this that once it`s done it`s done?

CLEAVER: I think you`re saying that once it`s done, it`s done is certainly
a big stickler. But again, we have to look at history, Ed, and Richard
Trumka said it right, its lots jobs and lower wages.

There is not one trade deal that`s been passed that as resulted in net job
gains for American workers. This is not one trade deal that`s been passed
that resulted in higher wages for American workers. And as I keep saying
about how the trade system is broken, how it doesn`t work in our favor.
And if we`re going to talk about income inequality we`re going to talk
about union-busting governors.

These are all things that are meant to takeaway the ability of workers to
stand up and get a raise. We need to have raise in wages in this country.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

GERARD: Workers have not a real wage and real income since -- in almost 30
years while the top 1 percent are lining their pockets with gold.

SCHULTZ: Congressman, if you had to call it right now, where is this vote?

CLEAVER: I don`t think it would be approved in the House. The ugly side
of it is that some people would be voting frankly against the President but
there are those of us who support the President strongly just -- we just
believe that he is on the wrong side here.

NAFTA will give us a lot of proof and so I oppose NAFTA and I`ve said at
the time, I probably oppose everything after.

SCHULTZ: All right. Gentleman, great to have you with us. Leo Gerard and
Congressman...

CLEAVER: Thank you.

SCHULTZ: ... Emanuel Cleaver here on the Ed Show. I appreciate it. Thank
you.

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