MSNBC "The Ed Show"- Transcript: Trans Pacific Partnership
Interview
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So, what are they saying in the middle of county. Let bring in Wisconsin
Congressman Mark Pocan who sits on the House Budget Committee, also with us
tonight Scott Paul President of the Alliance for American Manufacturing,
gentlemen great to have you with us tonight.
Congressman, I want to know what your constituents are saying in Wisconsin
in the middle of the country. Are they even aware of Fast-Track and TPP,
and are they paying attention to it?
REP. MARK POCAN, (D) WISCONSIN: Ed, they`re very aware of it, just a
couple weeks ago I had listing sessions in six counties. I think every
single listing session. This came up as an issue. In fact in Lafayette
County, the biggest town in Lafayette County is 2,400 people. They just
lost a company with 36 jobs that`s going to Mexico and they`ve applied for
trade adjustment assistance. So we`re still seeing that. If you think
about that, that 36 jobs in Darlington is like losing 3,600 jobs in Madison
also in my district.
So, this is a big issue people talk about everyone Democrats or Republican
should be standing against a trade deal that we don`t know enough about and
doesn`t have protections for labor environment had this tribunals, doesn`t
have currency manipulation go on and list. There`s many reason to oppose
this.
SCHULTZ: Congressman. Do your constituents in Wisconsin in the middle of
country. Are they curious about President Obama`s reversal on this? Are
they talking about it?
POCAN: I`ve got several times while we do the listing session again as an
example, why does the White House support this? And, you know, I think
this question was asked of the gentleman who did trade for President Reagan
who now opposes these trade deals. He said everything they`re promised
back then didn`t come to fruition. And now, he think this is a bad route
for American and he`s analysis was that the White House, no matter who`s
President, often looks at this for geopolitical reasons and we have allies
in the region and how do you give something to your allies in a region
especially where China is such a dominate economic force?
The problem is that ignores what I care about most which is that we`re
going to lose more jobs here in the United States and we`re going to have
wages depress right here at home. To me that is exactly what happens every
time we have a trade deal that doesn`t have the proper protections and
that`s why anyone should oppose the Trans-Pacific Partnership...
SCHULTZ: Yeah.
POCAN: ... if it doesn`t have those things. And I can tell you it doesn`t
right now.
SCHULTZ: You know, this isn`t about playing political favorites. I want
the audience watching the Ed Show tonight to know. This isn`t about Bernie
Sanders. It`s not about Hillary Clinton. It`s not about President Obama.
It`s about those folks out there across American who are in this American
economy and their future and their stability. That`s what this issue
about. It`s not about choosing of sides. This is an issue and it`s not a
cheap shot nor is it negative to step up and say "OK, where does this
candidate stand on something that is going to be so huge to our global
economy. Where is American going with this?"
Now Scott Paul, you have recently written an op-ed and you wrote about
President Obama when he was a Senator running for the White House.
President Obama, Barack Obama said he didn`t get -- that he`d get tough on
currency. But now with an opportunity to do something about it as
President he`s change his tune. What do you make of that Mr. Paul?
SCOTT PAUL, ALLIANCE FOR AMERICAN MANUFACTURING: Well, I`d like to see
more of the Barack Obama of 2007 and a little less of what we`re seeing
today. If he was true to his words in 2007 and I would add if Senator
Clinton is true to the words that she spoke back in 2007 as well. Could be
no doubt that this process the TPA, the Fast-Track authority and the
agreement the Trans-Pacific Partnership would look a lot different than
they are today and that they would represent the interest of working
people.
The challenge has been that -- and I think Rep. Pocan pointed this out that
this is become about geopolitics. I think that`s a flawed argument. It`s
become about Wall Street. And it`s losing touch with working people across
America.
Ed, I would just add that -- the clarity is simple to happen. I mean Rick
Santorum who announce for president yesterday penned an op-ed.
POCAN: Yeah.
PAUL: In March calling for -- dealing with currency manipulation and trade
deals a very specifically. There`s an amended that narrowly passed last
week that could have a game changer on this. Ed, I would like to hear
Senator Clinton talk in the way that she did during the 2007 campaign about
this with greater clarity. And I`ll just say this...
SCHULTZ: Sure.
PAUL: ... I think voters in Iowa and New Hampshire expect an answer. I
think they`ll be asking her consistently and I hope they receive one.
SCHULTZ: Well, the Clinton campaign, I`m getting a sense if they want this
vote in the House to take place ASAP so they get say "Well, it`s already
passed and this is the way it is so we`ll have to deal with it moving
forward". No, I mean this is not a slam dunk in the House right now. And
Congressman the votes aren`t there right now. And this is a huge vacation
or should I say working vacation or recess that the Congress is taking
right now because they`re getting input from folks back home and this is
building. The votes aren`t there or are they Congressman?
POCAN: No, in fact they will pull a vote when the White House and the
Republican leadership and Paul Ryan think they have the votes lined up.
But I could tell on the House Democratic side, there are only maybe 20
people right now who`re at the yes and all of the rest of us are right no
with a...
SCHULTZ: Yeah.
POCAN: ... small number of undecided. And I can tell you that this is
something that on the Republican side we think we might have at least 60
votes and growing who don`t want to give up our sovereignty through some of
the provision. You talk about the tribunals and other issue. So, this is
not a slam dunk. We`re going to fight this to the last breathe we have.
And I hope that are successful because we`re hearing it from our districts
if people don`t want this. There are simply not real constituents who say
"I think you should pass this".
SCHULTZ: OK. Now back to currency manipulation for a moment. China and
Japan are big players in this deal. Scott Paul, be very clear. They have
a record of currency manipulation, correct? And also that Hillary Clinton
has said that currency manipulation has to be address.
Well, in this trade deal it is not addressed. So, how much more
information does Hillary Clinton have to have to take a definitive stance
on this issue, your thought?
PAUL: Ed, it`s very clear and again this is the Democrats and Republicans
largely agree on. We have American businesses and labor that agree on this
point as well. And even if you don`t think that China and/or Japan are
manipulating their currencies today, just as some smart people say "You
don`t throw away you umbrella when it`s sunny outside because it`s going to
rain again". They have a pattern on this, they have a history. We have
sky high trade deficits with China and Japan. They cause American jobs all
across Wisconsin and Iowa and New Hampshire there are factories that have
shuttered form these unfair trade practices.
And if we truly want a trade agreement that represents 21st century
interest in the interest of working people. It`s got to deal with currency
manipulation. Right now in this country if you`re a hardworking business,
if you`re worker and through no fault of your own you lost your job because
of unfair trade practice like currency manipulation. You have...
SCHULTZ: Yeah.
PAUL: ... absolutely no recourse, it just happens that`s why we need to
this in trade deals and I would love to hear President Obama to use his
position on this back to what it was on 2007. More importantly I think
it`s important for Senator Clinton to speak out on this, very forcefully
and also very specifically about what she expect.
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